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Detective British

Complaint against outdated rules and enforcement of such.

Tonic

Only members of MI Command and community members directly invited by Detective British are allowed to post in this thread.

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Alright. So today my character was on an IC date with another MI trooper, O'Neill likes to cook as evidenced by people to know him. He had wine from the kitchen and poured it into glasses. It didn't seem to be a problem until ten minutes into the situation, a superior NCO comes and calls him up, and then takes him to the brig and says that having a "Uncontrolled Substance." in the kitchen is illegal and was subsequently demoted as an NJP. O'Neill had used wine to serve to fleet and MI in the past who were not of super high ranking to null and void the law.

 

This rulebook that says, but it was dug deep three pages in on the Roleplay forums @Scar @zyn  and even then it says nothing about alcohol in the clauses and articles. 

 

http://www.ucmj.us/sub-chapter-10-punitive-articles/912a-article-112a-wrongful-use-possession-etc-of-controlled-substances

 

https://www.thebalance.com/punitive-articles-of-the-ucmj-3356836

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/812

 

This could also be negated by the standing order on the Captain's ship. AKA @Rook who was confirmed to say that there was no standing laws about alcohol or otherwise. Even so, the wine was taken from the kitchen and most drinks on the ship that the enlisted can get their hands on, are watered down. This has been verified by @Rook and @Scar meaning that there was no true abuse of the substance.

 

This was an undeserved demotion, and something very vicious for something that could have been fixed with .// or //, /pm or otherwise.

 

If I had the resources available to know about this rule that from the links provided /doesn't exist/ O'Neill would not have committed the crime.


Bullet points to clarify.

 

  • Undocumented information hiding in the third page of the roleplay forums, not available for use or tagged on the official law list made by Centrix was used in an IC clause. As well as not having these rules put in the MI forums, the MI command forums, or the Marines forum.
  • Not allowing a sensible approach to the situation.
  • The /Rule/ doesn't even exist in the first place.
  • O'Neill would not have done it, if the rule was solidified and well known.

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Just to add on "You’ve probably noticed that alcohol is not on the DEA’s list. Why isn’t alcohol a Schedule I drug? Despite a public health crisis, federal officials seem reluctant to do anything about alcohol. Any time another drug like flakka or bath salts or Vicodin is in the news they are demonized, but alcohol is accepted, despite its fatalities. Due to this, alcohol brands are free to advertise as they please on television, social media, and everywhere else we look. It’s easy to get people hooked, and it makes brands money in the process."

 

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/alcohol-abuse/faq/is-alcohol-a-drug/#gref

Quote

 

This could also be negated by the standing order on the Captain's ship. AKA @Rook who was confirmed to say that there was no standing laws about alcohol or otherwise.

 

This was an undeserved promotion, and something very vicious for something that could have been fixed with .// or //, /pm or otherwise.

 

If I had the resources available to know about this rule that from the links provided /doesn't exist/ O'Neill would not have committed the crime.


Bullet points to clarify.

 

  • Undocumented information hiding in the third page of the roleplay forums, not available for use or tagged on the official law list made by Centrix was used in an IC clause.
  • Not allowing a sensible approach to the situation.
  • The /Rule/ doesn't even exist in the first place.

 

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8 hours ago, Detective British said:

Alright. So today my character was on an IC date with another MI trooper, O'Neill likes to cook as evidenced by people to know him. He had wine from the kitchen and poured it into glasses. It didn't seem to be a problem until ten minutes into the situation, a superior NCO comes and calls him up, and then takes him to the brig and says that having a "Uncontrolled Substance." in the kitchen is illegal and was subsequently demoted as an NJP. O'Neill had used wine to serve to fleet and MI in the past who were not of super high ranking to null and void the law.

Hi,

 

I don't see any reason to have bottles of wine stored in the kitchen onboard a military vessel. They are either in the bar for direct use or somewhere in the Grant's cargohold, locked away for resupply. In both conditions, they alcohol is locked away or supervised. If there was any alcohol in the kitchen, the kitchen itself would be heavily restricted and supervised. Again, the only use of wine in the kitchen is to either put it in your food or serve with your food; both of that I consider more a perk for Officers to have wine on a daily basis. The military wouldn't care about you having a date and trying to impress a girl. There would be no special-occasion-allowance just because. The drinking limit still applies.

 

 

8 hours ago, Detective British said:

This rulebook that says, but it was dug deep three pages in on the Roleplay forums @Scar @zyn  and even then it says nothing about alcohol in the clauses and articles. 

I don't know what you are referring to, but since you refrained from including links to this, I'll include my own. It says right here that:

"Possession of alcohol outside of the bar area is a criminal offence and will be taken as such."

The kitchen is far away from the bar area. It is therefore a criminal offence according to this ammendment of September 25th. Not knowing about a law is at best a mitigation of punishment, not a reason to go unpunished.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Detective British said:

This could also be negated by the standing order on the Captain's ship. AKA @Rook who was confirmed to say that there was no standing laws about alcohol or otherwise. Even so, the wine was taken from the kitchen and most drinks on the ship that the enlisted can get their hands on, are watered down. This has been verified by @Rook and @Scar meaning that there was no true abuse of the substance.

See above; even if it was watered down, any alcohol percentage is still alcohol.

 

 

Lastly, this is the wrong path to take this. This is an entirely-IC problem you're trying to solve via the administrative complaints forum. You have been NJP'd and it is within your right to contest this via a summary court martial. The rules are as they stand; Cronk is still your Second Lieutenant and wrote that article, ergo it is de facto a standing order. It will remain in effect unless specifically stated otherwise.

 

 

 

  • Winner 2

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"I swear officer. I didn't know I couldn't put that child in my trunk."

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In short. Alcohol is a controlled or restricted substance aboard or in any military unit. Even now days, you'll get, for example. A beer ration. You consume said beer in the galley or the designated function area aboard a warship. 2 drink rule, that makes it controlled and restricted. Not prohibited. Designated area. Bar unless special permissions granted.

My personal opinion is that this should be kept IC, but whatever floats your boat. The NJP is minimal.

 

Off topic:

Gourmet chefs aboard a military ship. For the Captain or the General I could understand. Not for every Tom, Dick and Harry. In bulk, you don't make to please, you make to fill.

  • Useful 1

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This thread could get out of hand quickly if not handled properly.

 

Considering that these restrictions were set in place, ICly, by MI Command [which encompasses Marauders, Engineers, Medics, & Marines], only members of MI Command will be allowed to post in response to Detective British, should he choose to continue attempting to change current protocols (which in of itself is not breaking a rule, so don't be sarcastic or demeaning to him).  Detective British is welcomed to invite other members of the community to post should they have a point to make (no 'all are invited' b.s.).

 

 

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5 hours ago, El Excellente said:

Hi,

 

I don't see any reason to have bottles of wine stored in the kitchen onboard a military vessel. They are either in the bar for direct use or somewhere in the Grant's cargohold, locked away for resupply. In both conditions, they alcohol is locked away or supervised. If there was any alcohol in the kitchen, the kitchen itself would be heavily restricted and supervised. Again, the only use of wine in the kitchen is to either put it in your food or serve with your food; both of that I consider more a perk for Officers to have wine on a daily basis. The military wouldn't care about you having a date and trying to impress a girl. There would be no special-occasion-allowance just because. The drinking limit still applies.

 

 

I don't know what you are referring to, but since you refrained from including links to this, I'll include my own. It says right here that:


"Possession of alcohol outside of the bar area is a criminal offence and will be taken as such."

The kitchen is far away from the bar area. It is therefore a criminal offence according to this ammendment of September 25th. Not knowing about a law is at best a mitigation of punishment, not a reason to go unpunished.

 

 

 

 

See above; even if it was watered down, any alcohol percentage is still alcohol.

 

 

Lastly, this is the wrong path to take this. This is an entirely-IC problem you're trying to solve via the administrative complaints forum. You have been NJP'd and it is within your right to contest this via a summary court martial. The rules are as they stand; Cronk is still your Second Lieutenant and wrote that article, ergo it is de facto a standing order. It will remain in effect unless specifically stated otherwise.

 

 

 

http://wiki.starshiptroopersrp.net/index.php/Federal_Articles

 

Here's the Federal Article, O'Neill was actually pulled up for a summary inside the brig with the superior NCO in question. Then the NCO in question decided to make it an NJP for unknown reasons.

 

And this is the page that held the rule that was hidden in the roleplay forums on the third page with no link or reference in the Federal Articles.

 

That post is from 2017, although probably still on-board the Grant, that post should have been pinned or given reference to in the MI Division, NCO updates or the NCO club.

 

This link, also on the third page is what I was given and then told to look for the law. So the person who also punished me clearly didn't know that link either, making your point a bit hollow.

 

I was told to make an OOC complaint due to the nature of what it was and the circumstances that were there in place. The complaint was there because I seriously, OOC and IC believed that O'Neill did nothing wrong and for his first offense on-board that didn't harm, or hurt anyone it was quite severe.

 

Sure, I might have made a fool out of myself but I have a right to contest what I thought was wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Detective British said:

And this is the page that held the rule that was hidden in the roleplay forums on the third page with no link or reference in the Federal Articles.

 

That post is from 2017, although probably still on-board the Grant, that post should have been pinned or given reference to in the MI Division, NCO updates or the NCO club.

 

This link, also on the third page is what I was given and then told to look for the law. So the person who also punished me clearly didn't know that link either, making your point a bit hollow.

 

Xalphox did not wish for the thread in question to be pinned to prevent pinned posts taking up 50% of the first page, alone.  To rectify this issue, a proper reference and warning to NCO's & CO's alike were amended to the Federal Articles thread (which is currently pinned on the Roleplay forums) a few moments ago.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Detective British said:

I was told to make an OOC complaint due to the nature of what it was and the circumstances that were there in place. The complaint was there because I seriously, OOC and IC believed that O'Neill did nothing wrong and for his first offense on-board that didn't harm, or hurt anyone it was quite severe.

 

Sure, I might have made a fool out of myself but I have a right to contest what I thought was wrong.

In response to this point, it is allowed for a member of the military to dispute NJP's and ultimately be sent to either a Summary or General Court Martial.  Mobile Infantry Command would be required to oversee this process, with Intelligence required to be on call for assistance if necessary.

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5 minutes ago, Tonic said:

 

 

Xalphox did not wish for the thread in question to be pinned to prevent pinned posts taking up 50% of the first page, alone.  To rectify this issue, a proper reference and warning to NCO's & CO's alike were amended to the Federal Articles thread (which is currently pinned on the Roleplay forums) a few moments ago.

 

 

In response to this point, it is allowed for a member of the military to dispute NJP's and ultimately be sent to either a Summary or General Court Martial.  Mobile Infantry Command would be required to oversee this process, with Intelligence required to be on call for assistance if necessary.

 

 

Well, what happens now? 

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35 minutes ago, Detective British said:

Well, what happens now? 

 

Because everything concerning the NJP is IC, a challenge will need to be issued ICly.  File a report with whichever CO your character would trust.

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At one point, as Poppy James, I was demoted from Sergeant to Corporal for having alcohol outside of the bar. 

 

It is a thing, has been a thing for a long time. Even if challenged ICly, I still believe the rules are the rules. 

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2 hours ago, HazyDay said:

At one point, as Poppy James, I was demoted from Sergeant to Corporal for having alcohol outside of the bar. 

 

It is a thing, has been a thing for a long time. Even if challenged ICly, I still believe the rules are the rules. 

I asked her to post this to illustrate that this has happened before and that Det British isn't just being demoted on a technicality.

 

I do agree that the MI need to get their regulations in order however if it's true that it's page 3. 

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17 minutes ago, Xalphox said:

I asked her to post this to illustrate that this has happened before and that Det British isn't just being demoted on a technicality.

 

I do agree that the MI need to get their regulations in order however if it's true that it's page 3. 

 

 

The regulations have now been all sorted and there are active references /Now/ before this complaint that wasn't the case.

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