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Fitz

The problem with the general mindset of our NCO's

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I know I said I would be less disagreeable, and I will try to be, but this was really bugging me. I'm not going to argue with anyone who comments, I just wont to get all of your ideas.

 

It seems like all of our NCO's, every single one, are too soft. Yeah, they can yell at you from time to time, but in reality, their goal is to be popular, and they want to be your friend. On most servers, as Enlisted you're sorta in it with the other Enlisted against the world, the Sergeant being a fear of your's, and therefore the Enlisted usually become close friends with other Enlisted, just as is realistic. We need a few hardasses, which is what I'm trying to make Anni, but I feel like for actually acting like an NCO I will only be punished for being too harsh or not friendly enough. 

 

Thoughts? I know it's kinda fun to be able to be pals with all the NCO's, but that's really just... boring in my opinion. 

 

@OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz (want ur opinion bb)

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all the ncos i've seen on this server were soft as fuck

exception - green, franco, remnar and a few others, but in general you get what you get

i tried to fight this for months if not years, and it can't be helped unless the players will step up, which they won't

or if they try to be hardasses in responce to this thread, they'll overdo it or do it in such a way it'll immediately be obvious it's for the sake of it

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19 minutes ago, Archer said:

all the ncos i've seen on this server were soft as fuck

exception - green, franco, remnar and a few others, but in general you get what you get

i tried to fight this for months if not years, and it can't be helped unless the players will step up, which they won't

or if they try to be hardasses in responce to this thread, they'll overdo it or do it in such a way it'll immediately be obvious it's for the sake of it

hello??

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It's like deja vu

 

Just gonna say that there is a fine gap between being the soft NCO Fitz is talking about and being the obnoxious asshole NCO that no one likes nor is helpful. The 'perfect' NCO, as Archer is talking about, seems a bit hard to come by as you can easily fall over the edge into the latter category (as he already pointed out somewhat).

Doesn't mean you shouldn't try and become the ' 'perfect NCO' ', but you should be careful about doing so.

But yeah, NCOs now are a wee bit soft, which is rich coming from me, a guy who wants everyone to like him and his characters.

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2 hours ago, El Excellente said:

hello??

look you were a hard nco for like 2 weeks then i started to treat it as a meme ok

especially when i made sgt

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Not gonna force people to roleplay a certain way, period. 

 

Unless this is genuinely becoming an issue, which it not. I've roleplayed the hardass, and I find it boring. Most robotic hardass characters tend to be boring. Whilst, sure, SST might be, canonically, full of harsh, super strict people, we ease up on the gas for everyone's enjoyment. 

 

Fun > Realism

 

if one person dislikes the NCOs, but the 10+ NCOs enjoy their time and function, I'm inclined to not really mind. 

 

NCOs are, in a sense, the back bone of the server. They lead the playerbase and involve them in activities. If no one wants to play their character / be an NCO because of how they're being pushed to act, bigger issues will arise than just "man my NCO is too nice". This is fact, it's happened before. 

 

Whilst I did roleplay the complete hardass for a time, i didn't enjoy it. Many people don't. 

 

Again, not gonna force people to act a certain way, IC or OOC. 

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There are very few people who can play the realistic hard-ass Sergeant. I recall countless who have tried, and those who have tried aren't NCOs any longer. If you try to force the wrong person into that particular character style, they over do it. It becomes a detriment to the server rather than a boon.

 

That isn't to say that it can't be done. A few managed. @Tonic played the last really good 'hard-ass' Sergeant that I can remember, even if he was a big softy to the other NCOs in private. Old Snowball broke a future Captain's jaw and sent him sprawling to the ground of the hangar bay for a minor mistake on the field. A few days later, he picked that same Corporal up off the engineer room deck plating after finding him bruised and broken by Intelligence. He contributed to the platoon in an extremely meaningful way.

 

Then we have other certain examples. Without going into names, I've seen Corporals try to shoot Staff Sergeants on the ship just because it tickles their E-peen the right way. I've seen idiotic Sergeants spend 4 hours emptying the server of players because they have people running 'laps' around the hangar. I've seen Corporals act like they're hot shit, waving batons around in the bar and throwing glass bottles at privates because "Look at me I'm a drunk NCO so fuck you".

 

90% of people can't roleplay that sort of character the right way. Most don't know where to draw the line between a good character and a power-trip.

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5 hours ago, Fitz said:

@OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz (want ur opinion bb)

Oh boy you asked for it- 

 

My opinion will, mostly, be an expression of how I play my character. I think, personally, a good way to play an NCO is to be someone relaxed that the Enlisted can feel comfortable around, someone they can go to when something is wrong. (Trust me, back with Tony all NCOs were actively TOLD to never mingle with Enlisted, do not be their friends, we were told to not be their friends because they are enlisted and we are higher than them. Therefore, shocker, no one liked the NCOs.) I try, key word is TRY to get a good mix. Roleplay as a rather relaxed person, not particulalry friendly but polite enough to not shoot down common conversation and act above anyone. However, if someone even remotely starts to take the piss, I shut it down. (I.E, stopping mid conversation with Enlisted to slam a Private's face against a table while they were starting a fight only to sit down and return to casual talk) Whether my character (Bently, obviously) comes across as too soft is up to debate, I don't really know. I've been told by a few people that they found him intimidating or what not but that's all down to personal opinion.

 

Basically, I have seen the server when NCOs were forced to be hardass cunts, it isn't fun. You end up getting a bunch of NCOs who no one likes and, at times, refuse to listen to. It just isn't fun for the server. But if people want to find that nice balance I would certainly encourage it, but just remember @Fitz you're trying to make Anni a more hardass person, all that results in is people complaining that you're too hard on people and acting like a cunt which can end up meaning people don't want to RP or talk with your character because they think they're a cunt. 

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Well I can make this pretty brief on my end.

 

Kayne isn’t going to turn into some hardass just because someone slapped a corporal patch on him. Most of our NCOs will step up when needed and be the bad guy, and if we were the bad guy all the time it wouldn’t be fun.

 

sure I’d love to bust every guy who used a sleeveless model or used the wrong attachments or used a camo not everyone’s using but it ruins it for that player. 

 

Amukama was one of the most unique characters on the server for example, (that I've been here for) and he all the sudden had a falling out for reasons I shall not speak of and he’s basically the equivalent of Dr Disrespect post cheating on his wife and bland.

 

aside from a few ; NCOs are characters who developed from private and unless they’ve gone through something to change that, they are still humans with their own personalities.

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Good stuff. I am aware of that balance, and I can say after power tripping an Öberfuhrer of the SS for a straight three months or so, it wasn't good for my server or me really. When I'm an NCO on a server though, I honestly don't care if I'm liked as long as I'm not being told I need to be liked. With Anni Järvinen in particular, she just wants to do her job well. As a marine, for the most part she was super overly nice because that was part of the job in her opinion because of the interaction with civilians —whether that be correct or not in your opinion is not of my concern—. If I make Corporal, I won't want to make as many friends with the Enlisted, but still a few. If I ever make Sergeant, I'll try not to have many at all, and I don't care if I'm liked (as long as I have Bently <3). I don't suggest you force people to RP a certain way, but I would overall suggest you promote more people who don't act like children, ahem, a few Lance Corporals, and I also don't want to be punished for realism. When I RP with a real Sergeant, it's not a detrimemt to my RP but rather greatly emhances it. I think Solomons is actually a pretty perfect balance that I'm going to try and emulate. 

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for as long as fun > realism then things will continue this way

 

no point fighting it - people who are here just to relax and bumblefuck around with a few friends will find this fun

 

people who are here for that SERIOUS MILSIM ROLEPLAY will not find it fun

 

as franco said, if they're having fun being softies, then we're outweighed off the get-go.

 

props to them for trying to salvage a thin middle-ground between the two, but they're between a rock and a hard place finding what the majority likes. so far, this seems like the best thing for the majority.

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I think it was already raised a bit further above. But the main problem which comes from being a Hardass NCO is that for some people, it can be hard for them to distinguish between IC and OOC, especially if those individuals have made characters based on themselves and they get in trouble/punished. Not that many people will enjoy others hating them for how they play a character, and will soften over time so they can at the least be included into cliques and other OOC groups which form and disband all the time. 

 

That said, it can be easier to lead people initially via being loved, than it can via fear. That is a reason why Corporals will be tend to be nicer to someone than a Staff Sergeant. The Corporal is barely above the enlisted below them, and need to get up to 6 people to listen to them absolutely. If the Corporal were to insult them constantly, they're more likely to "revolt." and ignore orders - While a Staff Sergeant is above the enlisted, and doesn't need to give them orders, they only need to give orders to the Sergeants below them (Assuming Chain of Command is followed) so who cares what they think of you, as long as they are doing their job. 

 

Tl;Dr of my views:  Sometimes spoiling the child is more appropriate than beating it with a rod. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Admyral Joe said:

I think it was already raised a bit further above. But the main problem which comes from being a Hardass NCO is that for some people, it can be hard for them to distinguish between IC and OOC, especially if those individuals have made characters based on themselves and they get in trouble/punished. Not that many people will enjoy others hating them for how they play a character, and will soften over time so they can at the least be included into cliques and other OOC groups which form and disband all the time. 

 

That said, it can be easier to lead people initially via being loved, than it can via fear. That is a reason why Corporals will be tend to be nicer to someone than a Staff Sergeant. The Corporal is barely above the enlisted below them, and need to get up to 6 people to listen to them absolutely. If the Corporal were to insult them constantly, they're more likely to "revolt." and ignore orders - While a Staff Sergeant is above the enlisted, and doesn't need to give them orders, they only need to give orders to the Sergeants below them (Assuming Chain of Command is followed) so who cares what they think of you, as long as they are doing their job. 

 

Tl;Dr of my views:  Sometimes spoiling the child is more appropriate than beating it with a rod. 

 

Yes, I really do agree. My character isn't at all based off myself, ,which I think is a good thing. I myself could never be so mean, but it's fine for me to RP.

 

The second point is very valid, and I agree, I will sorta try to ease into it, though on drop when I'm leading a squad I usually am pretty hard, and it's never failed for me but once when one person refused to follow some of my orders, and in that case they were demoted and beaten afterwards by a Sergeant.

 

I will take heed to your word, thank you. I think I might fail in the future if I keep things the same, so at the moment I'm trying to find the balance.

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