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PK Appeal/Complaint

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I used to be opposed to PK appeals even if I thought they would be justified, but I guess I've abandoned that mindset. 


Let's start off with some background info. Crashing an F-76, is a huge deal. It is something that should in my opinion, only happen upon rolling below 20. I have lost two pilot character on the ground after crashing, and that's for good reason, they don't belong.

Anyway, here is the order of events.

  1. I'm told by a staff member helping with the event to get on my TAC character (which is interesting because upon talking with the head of the event, he didn't want me on that character [maybe why I was PK'd])
  2. Hop on my TAC, staff member loads it up with an advanced particles projectile launcher, and I'm off towards the front.
  3. I spray a bit at some NPC's, but primarily what I'm doing is flying around with my nose attempting to point down so the bombs work correctly from the advanced particles.
  4. I take a warning in /e that I'm taking AA fire, so I pull out.
  5. I radio in that I can't keep flying there because of the AA, to which Vickers responds she will deal with it
  6. OB happens, and I check in, Vickers says I should check it out and see if the AA is still active, so I fly over to see. 
  7. At first I just fly through to check and see if I get anything
  8. I start spraying a bit because I've got no notification or warning that the AA is still in effect
  9. Suddenly, out of nowhere, it is said that my right wing takes a "strafing", and I start to lose control. This is with no warning whatsoever after I assumed the place was clear.
  10. I am told to roll
  11. I roll a 94 
  12. Despite my roll of 94 and no warning whatsoever I am shot down, leaving me to wonder what I would have had to roll not to be shot down?
  13. I get out and fight with the MI for a bit, then staying with Vickers as we retreated across the bride.
  14. There was a lone mine, and I run over it, setting it off. 
  15. I roll a 2
  16. It is said I died trying to escape from the OB, even though I was ahead of the MI running, and I stepped on a mine.
  17. Only one sentence is written on my character's death, and nobody really cares, because upon talking to everyone, they were just tired of the event.


So there we go, shot down for rolling a 94 with no warning in response to AA I was testing the waters against, and then I died as most Fleet do when shot down and forced to the ground. 


I talked to the person running the event, and they told me they didn't want TAC as part of their event, even though I was specifically told by another staff member to hop on my TAC fighter. I'm pretty sure this is why I was shot down and crashed because the admin didn't want TAC as part of the event, understandably, but I think this event was incredibly badly organized and terribly communicated. If you really need TAC out of your event, you should just talk to the admins helping you run said event and make it clear you don't want it around rather than crashing it for rolling a 94. 


These are the words of the droplead during the event which I think describe the situation of the event nicely:

"the communication from admins was really shockingly bad"

"we were repeatedly railroaded by an admin sprawning npcs around us, even underground or halfway through the ground, as well as shooting at us from noclip (I saw a floating morita firing at least once). when events were described, they had basically no information which allowed us to see where things were happening, or what exactly was happening. several times I was completely unaware of large scale important events because the mission runner didn't detail locations in a remotely clear way."


Even though what killed my character was a mine, what lead up to it was crashing my F-76 just because it was found to be too disruptive, and I know GM's love to crash Thunderbolts just to add that extra bit of action, perhaps to distract the players from the atrocity that was the event itself. 


When you crash a pilot, that's pretty much a death sentence. In the occurrence of a crash, there is a huge likelihood that character will die as a result, and mine did, as is expected from a Fleetie on the ground. I think a lot of people assume you can just kill off and crash pilot characters whenever, even if they roll a 94, because they're just throwaways anyhow, right? Well no actually, they are real characters, who really matter. This GM didn't know how TAC worked, and therefore should have made it clear there was to be no TAC on his event, but perhaps it was because it was someone above him that worked it in, he didn't want to just tell him "No", or perhaps he had the false illusion he knew what he was doing.


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As the quoted droplead I have to lend support. I'm not really a fan of PK appeals but this situation was about as clusterfucky as it gets. We were told there was AA - at no point shown where it was (one of the many times we were given no cues about where something was). OB hit the city, and Caine took out what could have been AA guns or artillery guns. 


Either way, we took that to mean 'we're not sure if we got it or not', because we hadn't been given enough information OOC to judge it IC. Park made another (cautious) run, rolled 94, and was downed? 


The event was chock full of railroading and bad design. This was another example of it. I feel like in any circumstances having a character die during this event would be pretty ridiculous, but the lack of communication or clarity over AA, and ignoring an extremely high roll? There's no reason Park should have gone down. 

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The OB sent down that was supposed to destroy the AA, hit the two Tanks that were engaged in a duel,not the AA emplacement (which is stationed ontop of the Main building where the Civilians were hurdled up) The OB that hit  the two tanks was not close to the AA to even receive any damage. @Cipher and @Medic


As for the Roll, the TAC fighter returned for a second strafe, despite the AA not being Destroyed, the Roll was not for the chances of crashing but rather the severity of the injury, they rolled a 94 and crashed with no harm to their character inflicted.


As for the Marauder taking on the Emplacements,  he was engaging the Artillery which were standing out in the Middle of the Town Square.


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5 minutes ago, Randynand said:

As for the Roll, the TAC fighter returned for a second strafe, despite the AA not being Destroyed, the Roll was not for the chances of crashing but rather the severity of the injury, they rolled a 94 and crashed with no harm to their character inflicted.

When viewing TAC combat, you shouldn't take into consideration the health of the player based off the roll, but rather the health of the vehicle in which they are. After the vehicle crashes, you then roll for character health. 


If we are to compare this to rolling for player health on the ground, you don't have to roll for being shot at by an NPC, only when you die do you roll. An equivalent in TAC would be for example, actually hitting the thing. How it works is, you're supposed to roll, then I roll, or vice versa. 


From how you're doing this, it means just on a quick strafe as even you describe it, there is a 100% chance the craft will be downed, which is not true and I think we can both agree on that.


I'm working on a guide for all this so stay tuned.

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I saw the event take place and was the admin that insisted on allowing the TAC in order to wrap up the mission quickly - thus I cannot in good faith take this report. 


Whilst I disagree(d) with the decision to ground you, you didn't die because you were grounded, you died because you ran over a landmine almost half an hour later. A may have lead to B, but A wasn't the operating and substantial cause of B - like most examples of death to landmine, your own carelessness caused it. The RNG gods subsequently frowned upon you, you rolled low, and per our standing convention you were PKed. 



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I'll be taking this one up as I've already been talking to witnesses, etc.


The circumstance involving the PK is sound, I will not contest that. You rolled a 2 and your character died as that circumstance. However, my concern is getting to that point. 


Just because the PK was a good PK does not mean that it should have happened in the first place, there are sometimes events that lead to these situations that are not the players fault and from what's presented here it seems as though that is the case. So I will be looking into that and ensuring that the how of ending up in the situation to get PKed was fair and reasonable.


Bear with me as another post will follow later tonight.

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