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Ymot Tommy Wort

Old players vs new players. (Opinion)

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Being an old player doesn't make you better than any of us, just cause you have more "skills" or "experience" doesn't mean you have the right to talk down on the newer breed of players. The old days are gone and aren't coming back, things are different now and you have to accept it. People from my generation of players were just as dedicated to this server as you, we just do things a little different and that's okay, and some of us might not do it in the way you think is right, but this a game made for FUN and we all have our own ways to go about it. I just hate (and others think this) the feeling of watching over my shoulder, paranoid of making mistakes or feeling I have to prove myself on a god damn rp server on Gmod. We aren't in the actual military, we are bunch of teens and younger adults pretending to be characters in a lore built on shooting bugs mindlessly, this is Gmod rp, not Arma 3 or some military sim. Too many people treat this like a job instead of a game, its okay if people like me forget things as it is a game, me forgetting the blast radius of a bomb isn't an issue as it is a fucking game, there isn't real lives at stake.

 

I am writing this rant because since a bunch of older players came back, getting handed promotions and what not, it feels like anyone who is newer is just being swept under the radar, like we are beneath them, and it is this elitism that needs to stop. 

 

Now I may be paranoid but Carters death feels like it is linked to this, I am hearing rumors all over the place about it being a targeted PK. It feels like the newer players are just getting thrown in the trash as the older ones come back and take all the spots. It took me and others ages to get to NCO then these people come back and get it instantly. It is like I am being shown the door, like all my time playing was a waste of time, it meant nothing.

 

I respect the older days, but I seem to receive no respect back, now I know that I ain't that bright, hell I was a lot of special needs classes in school but that doesn't mean I don't deserve a fair chance. I really like this server and I don't mind this community at all, some of you guys are like friends to me but I just don't like this weird unspoken conflict between old and new players.

 

Can we just accept that everyone has there own ways of learning and enjoying themselves? Also this is not a "FUCK U OLD PLAYERZ" Post, it is just and opinion or a theory, fuck knows I just want to let out some frustrations that very well might be all in my head.

 

If you read all of this, thank you :)

 

(Please warn me if this post is any way breaking rules and I will take it down straight away regardless of my opinions)

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29 minutes ago, Ymot Tommy Wort said:

It feels like the newer players are just getting thrown in the trash as the older ones come back and take all the spots. It took me and others ages to get to NCO then these people come back and get it instantly. It is like I am being shown the door, like all my time playing was a waste of time, it meant nothing.

Right, I'll address this part as I am to blame here.

 

As of the time that some older players returned, the NCO roster was rather ass backwards. I had a lot of empty slots and no one to fill them who, to me, were up to the standard I wanted. The older players are people who I know have a level of skill and experience that I needed at that moment in time. My plan is, to publicly explain it for the first time, is to get a solid set roster of top quality experienced NCOs and players who OOCly and ICly know their shit. Then the roster can be opened up to newer people who don't have that experience. Who aren't necessarily amazing drop leads. So that they can be given a rank and then taught how to do their jobs by those who are already established as good leaders. However, I don't want to experiment and take chances when there are already known people at my disposal. 

 

No one, and I repeat, NO ONE is side lined. No one is ignored or shown the door. Fun fact, we have an official NCO black list. We've had it for months. Here's the list: 

-

-

-

No one. No one on the server is black listed from NCO. ANYONE can be an NCO if they put in the time, show the WANT to do it and are good enough. If someone wants to be an NCO they can literally ask for a shot and will probably get a chance at Lance. It's that easy.

 

I do personally apologize for giving the impression of spitting in your face or anyone else. I have no intent to do that to anyone and would like to do anything BUT shit on players who put time and passion into this server. 

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27 minutes ago, Ymot Tommy Wort said:

Being an old player doesn't make you better than any of us, just cause you have more "skills" or "experience" doesn't mean you have the right to talk down on the newer breed of players. The old days are gone and aren't coming back, things are different now and you have to accept it. People from my generation of players were just as dedicated to this server as you, we just do things a little different and that's okay, and some of us might not do it in the way you think is right, but this a game made for FUN and we all have our own ways to go about it. I just hate (and others think this) the feeling of watching over my shoulder, paranoid of making mistakes or feeling I have to prove myself on a god damn rp server on Gmod. We aren't in the actual military, we are bunch of teens and younger adults pretending to be characters in a lore built on shooting bugs mindlessly, this is Gmod rp, not Arma 3 or some military sim. Too many people treat this like a job instead of a game, its okay if people like me forget things as it is a game, me forgetting the blast radius of a bomb isn't an issue as it is a fucking game, there isn't real lives at stake.

Old players in my mind are people like Camgrr, Deckers, Hicks, Soap, Frankenstein Joe, Orwell, Snow Wolf, and so on and so forth. These players typically aren't especially elitist about their longevity - so for those of us who really have been here a long time we find it quite amusing when a player who has been here perhaps a year or two gets too big for their boots because they are a veteran - least of all because "a year or two" is little more than the margin of error for many of us when we are calculating how long we've been here. You are all new players - half of you barely recognise the Murphy, and 95% of you probably don't even know what a Yukon is. Some of you are newer than others. Get off your respective high horses.

 

I would appreciate it if you could tell me in confidence who these problem players are.

 

27 minutes ago, Ymot Tommy Wort said:

I am writing this rant because since a bunch of older players came back, getting handed promotions and what not, it feels like anyone who is newer is just being swept under the radar, like we are beneath them, and it is this elitism that needs to stop. 

 

Now I may be paranoid but Carters death feels like it is linked to this, I am hearing rumors all over the place about it being a targeted PK. It feels like the newer players are just getting thrown in the trash as the older ones come back and take all the spots. It took me and others ages to get to NCO then these people come back and get it instantly. It is like I am being shown the door, like all my time playing was a waste of time, it meant nothing.

 

Targeted PKs lead to immediate dismissal from the admin team. Indeed the last targeted PK led to a whole swathe of admins not only being removed but several being flat out banned from SSTRP. If you have any evidence of this, please feel free to share it with me.

 

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I think this post poses a few interesting points that I'm going to try and address in a respectful manner. Naturally, as this is an opinion post, I can offer only my opinion in return and attempt to support it (though I feel as if this will be mostly anecdotal).

 

Firstly, I recognized the point in your first paragraph, " I just hate (and others think this) the feeling of watching over my shoulder, paranoid of making mistakes or feeling I have to prove myself on a god damn rp server on Gmod." It's a pretty common feeling, though perhaps hate is a point of contention for different people. Personally, I always had the feeling of fear about messing up doing things on the server in an RP capacity as well. The best I can tell you is that, rationally, all hierarchical structures have the weight of responsibility. Your ability to properly handle responsibility is always measured in everything you do on the server, ICly and OOCly, because NCOs are put in a position of responsibility. You might not like it, but you must recognize that you have been on events with people who have acted as a bad NCO, and it lead to an overall rougher and less-fun experience. Therefore, people must prove and keep affirming that they have the overall competency to perform in such a role as to increase the smoothness of the server.

 

As for why this is the case? As I stated, hierarchical structures gradually increase the weight of responsibility as one moves further up the hierarchy. The conclusion based off of this is that those who act most in accordance, or in a satisfactory manner to those further up in the hierarchy, are promoted. Whether this is because people act in a "go-fast ARMA 3 military simulator/tacticool operaturrr" manner or a greater emotional intelligence/maturity or what-have-you (I'm sure there are a lot of reasons); there can be a plethora of reasons for promotion. Certain tastes are more appealing based off of who is promoting who and overall who has oversight over the entire running. 

 

Secondly, I have to address the point about returning players. I don't want to seem like an elitist, nor do I want to seem like a person who endorses cronyism or nepotism. However, I personally feel as if, logically, older players who have occupied a position for a while and have now returned are perhaps more experienced than up-and-coming players just entering the position, or who have briefly occupied it. Experience, mostly in seeing what works and what doesn't work, as well as having the inherent advantage of being able to tailor a specific style of IC-leadership that already fits a niche, gives older players a pretty big edge over newer ones. This isn't to say that new players are bad at any of the mentioned points, only that older players have a time advantage. As Optic has mentioned in the thread, he has a specific plan focused around mentoring newer players. I'd only like to point towards Pilotfish's "IC Guide to not being a fuck-up" or whatever it's called. While crass (and only in this more formal setting), I believe it's an exemplary article that really encompasses my point: an older player who has been around, filled a position before, has had opportunities to learn from other players, has a specific style of leadership, etc.

 

I believe that if your concern is that you're being sidelined because of older player's acting in a more elitist or big for their britches attitude, it may be more focused on the experience factor than it is a nepotism factor. I would never encourage bullying or exclusion of newer players because of ignorance regarding a factor, because there is a reasonable level of knowledge we have to expect. If you know more than that, great, you can perhaps make whatever interaction with that bit of knowledge more in depth. But we can't expect everyone to know everything; it's only fair. 

 

Having stated that, I HAVE TO STRESS: if someone offers you a bit of knowledge on something you didn't know, or attempts to teach you something, you better learn it. Make the attempt to broaden your horizons. If an older player says, "in my experience, this, this, and this works", try your best to remember it and adapt it to something you can learn. Carve your own style out of what others give you. Character building. If an older player says, "you're such an idiot, you didn't know this, this, and this!" then recognize that they're not trying to better you, but belittle you. Don't let people do that, talk it out with them or tell an admin. 

 

Again, just my opinion, but hopefully it was informative. Sorry if I misconstrued any of your points, but I'm willing to correct anything I might have assumed and redress the point.

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21 minutes ago, J. Jordan said:

I think this post poses a few interesting points that I'm going to try and address in a respectful manner. Naturally, as this is an opinion post, I can offer only my opinion in return and attempt to support it (though I feel as if this will be mostly anecdotal).

 

Firstly, I recognized the point in your first paragraph, " I just hate (and others think this) the feeling of watching over my shoulder, paranoid of making mistakes or feeling I have to prove myself on a god damn rp server on Gmod." It's a pretty common feeling, though perhaps hate is a point of contention for different people. Personally, I always had the feeling of fear about messing up doing things on the server in an RP capacity as well. The best I can tell you is that, rationally, all hierarchical structures have the weight of responsibility. Your ability to properly handle responsibility is always measured in everything you do on the server, ICly and OOCly, because NCOs are put in a position of responsibility. You might not like it, but you must recognize that you have been on events with people who have acted as a bad NCO, and it lead to an overall rougher and less-fun experience. Therefore, people must prove and keep affirming that they have the overall competency to perform in such a role as to increase the smoothness of the server.

 

As for why this is the case? As I stated, hierarchical structures gradually increase the weight of responsibility as one moves further up the hierarchy. The conclusion based off of this is that those who act most in accordance, or in a satisfactory manner to those further up in the hierarchy, are promoted. Whether this is because people act in a "go-fast ARMA 3 military simulator/tacticool operaturrr" manner or a greater emotional intelligence/maturity or what-have-you (I'm sure there are a lot of reasons); there can be a plethora of reasons for promotion. Certain tastes are more appealing based off of who is promoting who and overall who has oversight over the entire running. 

 

Secondly, I have to address the point about returning players. I don't want to seem like an elitist, nor do I want to seem like a person who endorses cronyism or nepotism. However, I personally feel as if, logically, older players who have occupied a position for a while and have now returned are perhaps more experienced than up-and-coming players just entering the position, or who have briefly occupied it. Experience, mostly in seeing what works and what doesn't work, as well as having the inherent advantage of being able to tailor a specific style of IC-leadership that already fits a niche, gives older players a pretty big edge over newer ones. This isn't to say that new players are bad at any of the mentioned points, only that older players have a time advantage. As Optic has mentioned in the thread, he has a specific plan focused around mentoring newer players. I'd only like to point towards Pilotfish's "IC Guide to not being a fuck-up" or whatever it's called. While crass (and only in this more formal setting), I believe it's an exemplary article that really encompasses my point: an older player who has been around, filled a position before, has had opportunities to learn from other players, has a specific style of leadership, etc.

 

I believe that if your concern is that you're being sidelined because of older player's acting in a more elitist or big for their britches attitude, it may be more focused on the experience factor than it is a nepotism factor. I would never encourage bullying or exclusion of newer players because of ignorance regarding a factor, because there is a reasonable level of knowledge we have to expect. If you know more than that, great, you can perhaps make whatever interaction with that bit of knowledge more in depth. But we can't expect everyone to know everything; it's only fair. 

 

Having stated that, I HAVE TO STRESS: if someone offers you a bit of knowledge on something you didn't know, or attempts to teach you something, you better learn it. Make the attempt to broaden your horizons. If an older player says, "in my experience, this, this, and this works", try your best to remember it and adapt it to something you can learn. Carve your own style out of what others give you. Character building. If an older player says, "you're such an idiot, you didn't know this, this, and this!" then recognize that they're not trying to better you, but belittle you. Don't let people do that, talk it out with them or tell an admin. 

 

Again, just my opinion, but hopefully it was informative. Sorry if I misconstrued any of your points, but I'm willing to correct anything I might have assumed and redress the point.

I respect your opinion and completely understand your points. Thank you for offering the other perspective in a nice and understanding way :) Although i stick by my post, I can see some good points in here too. 

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45 minutes ago, Xalphox said:

Old players in my mind are people like Camgrr, Deckers, Hicks, Soap, Frankenstein Joe, Orwell, Snow Wolf, and so on and so forth. These players typically aren't especially elitist about their longevity - so for those of us who really have been here a long time we find it quite amusing when a player who has been here perhaps a year or two gets too big for their boots because they are a veteran - least of all because "a year or two" is little more than the margin of error for many of us when we are calculating how long we've been here. You are all new players - half of you barely recognise the Murphy, and 95% of you probably don't even know what a Yukon is. Some of you are newer than others. Get off your respective high horses.

 

I would appreciate it if you could tell me in confidence who these problem players are.

 

 

Targeted PKs lead to immediate dismissal from the admin team. Indeed the last targeted PK led to a whole swathe of admins not only being removed but several being flat out banned from SSTRP. If you have any evidence of this, please feel free to share it with me.

 

I have met many nice old players, and I think most people here are cool (even the ones who don't like me!). Thank you for commenting this as it makes me understand everything a bit more. As for the Carter conspiracy, I am not sure who directly did it or if it even exists but it keeps getting mentioned to the point I am like "Hm, this is a bit fishy". The death itself felt odd to me and I remember a "There will be a free corporal spot" OOC comment before the drop, I swear. I don't know, all I know is my last roll was 82 or something but because no one else rolled I died? I am not writing an appeal because I have no evidence, only opinions and rumours that couldn't possibly form a good PK appeal. So that is that.

 

I do not mind the older players taking some slots to re furnish the NCO ranks but I just would like some of them to have a better way to go about it. The frustrations in this post are agreed with by many peeps on the server I know but I was only one who was like "I need to say something!". 

 

Thank you too all the mature comments, I was literally scared to see the feedback. 

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57 minutes ago, OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz said:

Right, I'll address this part as I am to blame here.

 

As of the time that some older players returned, the NCO roster was rather ass backwards. I had a lot of empty slots and no one to fill them who, to me, were up to the standard I wanted. The older players are people who I know have a level of skill and experience that I needed at that moment in time. My plan is, to publicly explain it for the first time, is to get a solid set roster of top quality experienced NCOs and players who OOCly and ICly know their shit. Then the roster can be opened up to newer people who don't have that experience. Who aren't necessarily amazing drop leads. So that they can be given a rank and then taught how to do their jobs by those who are already established as good leaders. However, I don't want to experiment and take chances when there are already known people at my disposal. 

 

No one, and I repeat, NO ONE is side lined. No one is ignored or shown the door. Fun fact, we have an official NCO black list. We've had it for months. Here's the list: 

-

-

-

No one. No one on the server is black listed from NCO. ANYONE can be an NCO if they put in the time, show the WANT to do it and are good enough. If someone wants to be an NCO they can literally ask for a shot and will probably get a chance at Lance. It's that easy.

 

I do personally apologize for giving the impression of spitting in your face or anyone else. I have no intent to do that to anyone and would like to do anything BUT shit on players who put time and passion into this server. 

I understand, thank you. Also no need to apologise :)

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1 minute ago, Ymot Tommy Wort said:

"There will be a free corporal spot"

Not to skimp over the point of your post (Jordan basically summarized everything I'd say and did it better,) but I believe it was a player who made that quip. It might've been Nier.

 

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Just now, Tony said:

Not to skimp over the point of your post (Jordan basically summarized everything I'd say and did it better,) but I believe it was a player who made that quip. It might've been Nier.

 

Maybe he was a spy? Who spilled the info? Joking, joking. Well I guess that makes it just a comment then. However I am paranoid xD

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44 minutes ago, Ymot Tommy Wort said:

Maybe he was a spy? Who spilled the info? Joking, joking. Well I guess that makes it just a comment then. However I am paranoid xD

don't be paranoid. i was there and all 4 of us were staring at the bug in the corner, sneaked up on probably legitimately

 

Edited by radical roach
snip

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Just now, radical roach said:

don't fuel the fire. if there's a real problem take it to pm. this sentence without anything else attached to it is rly inflammatory.

 

don't be paranoid. i was there and all 4 of us were staring at the bug in the corner, sneaked up on probably legitimately

 

I agree with the fuel to fire thing, please keep this comment section civil. Also yeah I am over thinker so I get paranoid, my bad.

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10 minutes ago, radical roach said:

don't fuel the fire. if there's a real problem take it to pm. this sentence without anything else attached to it is rly inflammatory.

You're right. I'm sorry.

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14 hours ago, Xalphox said:

and 95% of you probably don't even know what a Yukon is

Can confirm, never played on the Yukon.

 

Just to cover My opinion on this.

I agree that there are plenty of people who view going on the server as a job where everything must be perfect. While it is okay  to do that (And will likely lead to you becoming an Admin as the mindset is beneficial in the upper echelons if you have no serious negatives) There are still plenty of people who will come on the server for fun, which is encouraged. If you see everything as a job, it will burn you out and wipe you out of the server. Like for myself, I feel I wouldn't have been an admin for almost 3 years straight now (Now I feel old ;-; ) if I viewed everything in a perfectionist mindset as I would've burnt out and fallen off the server, if I felt constantly judged to the point it was affecting how I played? Then again, I heavily sympathize with you in that I probably would've left.

 

However, while do agree with what you have put, I also feel that what Jordan & Optic put is probably the case in regards to leadership. At present, the leadership doesn't want to chance something when they have tried and tested at least with what they already have. That said, there are plenty of "New"er players in my eyes managing to get in, so there are some chances going on. A chief example of this would be Optic himself, as well as Argon. Both of them joined the community just under a year ago during Operation Omega, and now both are Admins, one leads Mobile Infantry and the other Engineering.

 

If it was a targeted PK, then even if it was not policy, they should be removed.

 

 

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I'm pretty sure I'm the bastard 'old' player who inspired this series of threads.

 

Like Xal says, folks who joined when I did aren't particularly old in the scale of things, and honestly I think there's a lot of bullshit clique-ish worship of people considered 'old fags'. A lot of the time I see GOOC messages like 'OH MY GOD IS THAT X CHARACTER', or even characters who worship 'the old legends'. It's all horseshit. A lot of older players (and longer standing characters) can be real prats, anyway. 

 

.Net (and sst in general) has always had this problem of equating experience/longevity with quality. Don't get me wrong, there are some genuine gems who've been around for ages, but being around for ages hasn't been the defining factor in what makes them good. They're good because they're decent, smart, creative people. They've matured into that in their real life. That's who they are as people, not .net members. If they're become that over time here, it's because they played here during those important years. 

 

I've stated my views there before (and occasionally got into trouble for being a bit of a cunt about them). The idea that I'd be painted out as a some figure who's against new people is insane to me, and probably anyone who knows me remotely well.

 

What Jordan says has a lot of merit, but I don't think this is really about old/new. I think it's about the attitude a lot of these older returning players tend to take: one of realism and internal logic of the setting. They want things to make sense. So if your character is rated to use nuclear weapons, they should know at least the basic info surrounding those weapons. Unfortunately usually that also means the player has to learn that stuff. A lot of us have gone through school and learned how to quickly take in information and remember it, so to us that isn't a problem. For someone busy at school or in a more demanding job than we tend to have, I can definitely see that being a problem.

 

The harsh side of me says that you're welcome to not RP things which require that bit of OOC research.

 

The less cuntish side says that it should be an inclusive experience, and that putting that pressure on people who just want to blow shit up on a roleplay server is overly harsh.

 

I dunno, honestly. I was just roleplaying a character who does now and then spot-check people's training. There wasn't really an OOC component to it. I wasn't looking to ruin your day or fuck up your experience. I do think you caused further problems for yourself though, because what fucked things up for your character really wasn't you not knowing stuff, it was that your character was wilfully insubordinate about it. That's nothing to do with investing time in researching bullshit, and everything to do with accepting the consequences of IC actions. We roleplay a military. Being rude to a superior is going to have consequences. I really think you dug your own hole here.

 

I'd take this as a learning experience about how to respond to frustrating situations. It's clearly been a difficult thing, and I sympathise, but I don't really appreciate being vaguely needled from a distance for things I can't really help, like having been around longer and roleplaying a relatively bootlaces-all-tied character. I mean, Xal posted earlier to offer you the chance to effectively throw me under the bus. I don't have a great history with Xal - there's genuine potential for you to really screw me there, which you've created from a situation which wasn't given to you with any malice. 

 

Before this, we've had a pretty healthy relationship as roleplayers. In fact, I think the way Carter (and you by proxy) was treated as a corporal was rough, and I made sure my character acted as a sympathetic figure in that. I feel like that should go some way to show I don't hold any ill will towards you, and that at worst, this is a clash of different attitudes and styles. I do feel that you could've responded to it more maturely, though. I really don't like being put in this position for roleplaying a character.

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37 minutes ago, Pilotfish said:

I'm pretty sure I'm the bastard 'old' player who inspired this series of threads.

 

Like Xal says, folks who joined when I did aren't particularly old in the scale of things, and honestly I think there's a lot of bullshit clique-ish worship of people considered 'old fags'. A lot of the time I see GOOC messages like 'OH MY GOD IS THAT X CHARACTER', or even characters who worship 'the old legends'. It's all horseshit. A lot of older players (and longer standing characters) can be real prats, anyway. 

 

.Net (and sst in general) has always had this problem of equating experience/longevity with quality. Don't get me wrong, there are some genuine gems who've been around for ages, but being around for ages hasn't been the defining factor in what makes them good. They're good because they're decent, smart, creative people. They've matured into that in their real life. That's who they are as people, not .net members. If they're become that over time here, it's because they played here during those important years. 

 

I've stated my views there before (and occasionally got into trouble for being a bit of a cunt about them). The idea that I'd be painted out as a some figure who's against new people is insane to me, and probably anyone who knows me remotely well.

 

What Jordan says has a lot of merit, but I don't think this is really about old/new. I think it's about the attitude a lot of these older returning players tend to take: one of realism and internal logic of the setting. They want things to make sense. So if your character is rated to use nuclear weapons, they should know at least the basic info surrounding those weapons. Unfortunately usually that also means the player has to learn that stuff. A lot of us have gone through school and learned how to quickly take in information and remember it, so to us that isn't a problem. For someone busy at school or in a more demanding job than we tend to have, I can definitely see that being a problem.

 

The harsh side of me says that you're welcome to not RP things which require that bit of OOC research.

 

The less cuntish side says that it should be an inclusive experience, and that putting that pressure on people who just want to blow shit up on a roleplay server is overly harsh.

 

I dunno, honestly. I was just roleplaying a character who does now and then spot-check people's training. There wasn't really an OOC component to it. I wasn't looking to ruin your day or fuck up your experience. I do think you caused further problems for yourself though, because what fucked things up for your character really wasn't you not knowing stuff, it was that your character was wilfully insubordinate about it. That's nothing to do with investing time in researching bullshit, and everything to do with accepting the consequences of IC actions. We roleplay a military. Being rude to a superior is going to have consequences. I really think you dug your own hole here.

 

I'd take this as a learning experience about how to respond to frustrating situations. It's clearly been a difficult thing, and I sympathise, but I don't really appreciate being vaguely needled from a distance for things I can't really help, like having been around longer and roleplaying a relatively bootlaces-all-tied character. I mean, Xal posted earlier to offer you the chance to effectively throw me under the bus. I don't have a great history with Xal - there's genuine potential for you to really screw me there, which you've created from a situation which wasn't given to you with any malice. 

 

Before this, we've had a pretty healthy relationship as roleplayers. In fact, I think the way Carter (and you by proxy) was treated as a corporal was rough, and I made sure my character acted as a sympathetic figure in that. I feel like that should go some way to show I don't hold any ill will towards you, and that at worst, this is a clash of different attitudes and styles. I do feel that you could've responded to it more maturely, though. I really don't like being put in this position for roleplaying a character.

It just seemed unneeded for you to ask me what the blast radius of a nuke was, of course I don't know that that, why would I know that. Other engineers (Who also think the entire scene was quote "Bullshit') also don't know the answer to that question, because we aren't real engineers. We are like what you said, characters, not actual military. I was angry because I just did a drop in which I did well and had fun as an engineer then some person comes and shits on my knowledge, then worse of all gets me into a situation where I have to re-learn munitions. I have been an engineer none stop for 4 months, and always get the job done, I got to Senior Specialist as Carter and EARNED it. Sorry I didn't remember small details, I just ain't into army as some people, I am into the mad universe that is Starship Troopers. 

 

I got overly angry, yes, but your question of the radius of a bomb was nothing more but an attempt to talk down to me. It was random and all it did was ruin all my engineering. I am currently working on getting the engineer patches I earned and know how to use back. However I feel like it is a loosing battle now. 

 

I still don't understand why you decided to pick on my knowledge out of no where, also I did NCO fine as Carter, I just did it my way and it triggered some people, that I cannot help. I play my way, and I ain't that bright and may forget things but I can't help that, I am just here to have fun.

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I get that, but your character didn't know what TON or Geo-Nav stood for, either. You're right that knowing the name of stuff isn't really necessary to use it, but your character didn't really know what geo-nav did either. The overwhelming impression our characters got was that your character didn't know what he was talking about. 

 

Whether people should know that stuff is down to the people who run engineering. It was taken to them, and they decided you should know more than that. Throughout, you roleplayed your character as disrespectful and insubordinate - that was what led to them really getting into trouble. Questioning orders, insulting superiors, acting disrespectfully even to an officer. 

 

If your character had said "..I dunno, sorry." the roleplay would've gone very differently. This wasn't about not knowing things - it was about your character acting out. First he ignored a sergeant asking him a question, then he protested that he had to be asked the question, then he said he didn't know, and continued to be disrespectful. 

 

If you're going to pin that on the old/new player divide, I have to say you're causing that divide more than pointing it out. How do you expect older players to respond when you do that and turn around to say 'it's because older players are bastards'? 

 

Yeah, maybe my character was a bit of a cunt to ask a question that she felt an engineer should know the answer to. That said, it pointed out gaps in knowledge that engineering were concerned about - not her. 

 

If my character had just decided to be a cunt and picked on yours (not what happened), yeah it'd be shitty IC, but .net is full of arsehole characters. Your argument is that your character was picked on, IC. Again, that's really not what happened, but if it were, the way to deal with that would be IC. It's not an OOC issue.

 

I'm concerned about derailing this thread but I'm also not convinced this isn't what the thread is really about. It seems like these threads have cropped up directly following your character quitting engineering after this incident. Jordan's addressed what you've said at face value. It's possible I'm just being a cynical shit in addressing what I think it's actually about. 

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34 minutes ago, Pilotfish said:

I get that, but your character didn't know what TON or Geo-Nav stood for, either. You're right that knowing the name of stuff isn't really necessary to use it, but your character didn't really know what geo-nav did either. The overwhelming impression our characters got was that your character didn't know what he was talking about. 

 

Whether people should know that stuff is down to the people who run engineering. It was taken to them, and they decided you should know more than that. Throughout, you roleplayed your character as disrespectful and insubordinate - that was what led to them really getting into trouble. Questioning orders, insulting superiors, acting disrespectfully even to an officer. 

 

If your character had said "..I dunno, sorry." the roleplay would've gone very differently. This wasn't about not knowing things - it was about your character acting out. First he ignored a sergeant asking him a question, then he protested that he had to be asked the question, then he said he didn't know, and continued to be disrespectful. 

 

If you're going to pin that on the old/new player divide, I have to say you're causing that divide more than pointing it out. How do you expect older players to respond when you do that and turn around to say 'it's because older players are bastards'? 

 

Yeah, maybe my character was a bit of a cunt to ask a question that she felt an engineer should know the answer to. That said, it pointed out gaps in knowledge that engineering were concerned about - not her. 

 

If my character had just decided to be a cunt and picked on yours (not what happened), yeah it'd be shitty IC, but .net is full of arsehole characters. Your argument is that your character was picked on, IC. Again, that's really not what happened, but if it were, the way to deal with that would be IC. It's not an OOC issue.

 

I'm concerned about derailing this thread but I'm also not convinced this isn't what the thread is really about. It seems like these threads have cropped up directly following your character quitting engineering after this incident. Jordan's addressed what you've said at face value. It's possible I'm just being a cynical shit in addressing what I think it's actually about. 

Just don't ask randomly again and we are good. I am trying make a medic char at the moment and my god I am terrified after this incident, I don't remember much from medical too, so if you want to make Cait 3spc again you know what to do. Also this thread is actually connected to built frustrations I have had since the entire random promotion thing was happening with older players and the treatment towards me and others in that transition. Lets not derail this thread no more and just leave the incident as it is. I will get my Spc. rank in engineering back, it will happen, and then we can pretend this never happened.

 

However my original post still stands, thank you for all the comments everyone and thank you for keeping as civil as possible. I like the old players and new players, just a bit paranoid after recent events.

 

I am no longer replying to this thread, I can only hope some change takes place. If not, well tough luck I lost. 

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