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Ares Kerr PK Appeal

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Ares died from a gunshot order given from a Col. However I think it isn't right because at the time Ares was a acting rank of Master Sergeant. The events leading up to Ares death where a Sergeant telling him to take off his belt 3 times Ares said no to the first two and finally submitted to the third one. (Note this was NOT a NJP.) the sergeant flung himself towards Ares missing two blows ares gets him to the ground then the sergeant gets away(this is when a crowd starts forming) the sergeant strikes ares and while he is down hits the panic button. The last Marine comes and Col. Tells him to stand down as he watches Ares and the Sergeant fighting. Once ares gets a good strike into the Sergeant the Col. Steps in and begains fighting with ares and a medic stepped in doing the same. They knock him down and the medic breaks his knee cap, this is when Ares reaches for his sidearm and draws it on the three men. The three men get it away and the medic points at Ares chest, they ask the Col. What to do and he gives the order to fire onto ares, the medic does so and 3 shots go Into Ares chest killing him.   I think that Ares shouldn't be PKed because the Sergeant started the fight and all Ares did was in self defense. I will be more than happy to give up My TSgt up if it means I could have Ares back. Thank you for your time.

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Dr. Tonic II Esq., Attorney at Large, is on the case!

 

From the description of events, it appears as though this would fall under an Enforced CK.  You can find our guidelines for every manner of CK or TK here.

 

The specific note tied to this CK appears to be the following...

On 7/22/2017 at 10:54 PM, Xalphox said:

They weren't simply following the orders of a superior officer.

 

@Ares, do you believe that there was any (1) OOC intent behind these series of actions that you are calling into question, or perhaps a (2) strictly IC incident that you agree that did follow the guidelines provided in the above linked thread, or (3) something else that hasn't been addressed?

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My reading of the situation:

 

1. As Larsen, I saw Kerr - a Senior Specialist - locked in a fight with Sergeant Canton. Thanks to luck of the rolls (or perhaps not given the consequences), Canton was losing heavily to the Senior Specialist, in front of a handful of Canton's subordinates nonetheless.

 

2. Proper discipline and respect for the chain of command is one of Larsen's few paramount ideals: he therefore stepped in to stop the fight, through violence if necessary. He aimed at kick at Ares who was at this point on top of Kerr.

 

3. Kerr dodged Larsen and carried on fighting with Ares. At this point it escalated and Larsen got a large number (5+) troopers involved.

 

4. Kerr triggered his panic button and summoned a trio of Marines, who approached threateningly with stunsticks.

 

5. Kerr drew his sidearm, threatening the room - including Colonel Larsen and Colonel Ramsey. This upped the ante and justified the eventual use of lethal force

 

6. Kerr was eventually disarmed by Ramsey - but continued to resist forcefully. Larsen gave Johansson the order to shoot him dead.


There may be an arguable case IC that this was not justified as he was subdued, however I think this should stay IC. I don't think many officer-led courts martial would resolve to find the Colonel guilty as (1) the man drew a firearm on a commissioned officer, (2) therefore was a dead man walking anyway, and (3) fundamentally he refused to yield or surrender even when relieved of his firearm.

 

Furthermore although the interpretation of law can always be subjective based on who the officer who might apply it, I think Kerr's interpretation of article 41 that because of Ares' involvement in an investigation he was permanently entitled to the authority of a MSgt does not hold water. I argue that it is carefully worded to state that it applies only "where in the performance of their duties as a Federation Fleet Marine" - and given to the best of my knowledge Kerr was not performing any of his duties as a Marine at the time that Canton chose to attack him. Even if he were, I do not think it was evident to any involved that he was - and therefore with no associated intent I would argue that Canton is not in violation. Finally, were Kerr's interpretation allowed to stand, it would lead to a perverse situation where any Marine with even the most tangential link to an investigation would claim to hold the authority of a MSgt in all circumstances all through the duration of that investigation - and effectively be outside of the reach of the entire NCO structure above them. 

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@Tonic

(1) As far as I know of there was no OOC reasons or actions that have happened.

(2) I believe it was Striclty IC how ever it does not follow the guide lines.

(3) From when I was talking with Hazy she said that Ares was being stubborn with the Sergeant, and earlier that day we did a bunk inspection and Ares ROYALLY pissed off Clanton who was a Corporal at the time. The only time that Ares punched or hit a superior is when it was an act of self defense. 

8 hours ago, Xalphox said:

(1) the man drew a firearm on a commissioned officer, (2) therefore was a dead man walking anyway, and (3) fundamentally he refused to yield or surrender even when relieved of his firearm.

(1) As stated multiple times already it was an act of self defense, this was NOT a Non-Judicial Punishment.

(2) I do not agree with this as stated above.

(3) From what I can remember there where no attempts to make him surrender at anytime before the fight involved a firearm, There where 3 Marines there and you didint ask them to cuff ares while he was knocked out or attempt to stop the fight if I remember correctly Larson said "Stand down Marines."

 

As a member of the Federation Provost Corps, A marine is protected while in an investigation. Ares specifically was given a case involving a DWD, he was granted permission from the person who opened the case to investigate it, at the time when Ares was attacked he was going to the location of the crime to find any evidence, then he started talking to Christensen who at the time was wearing an MI rank and it appeared that he was promoted, Ares then asked the Sergeant why he was wearing the Lance patches and instead of awnser it the Sergeant decided he was going to fight Ares. 

Some of that also falls under the first (3)

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I will start off by saying that this incident is Pembridge 2.0.  Pembridge was a Marine who decided to go against their superior, ultimately laying hands on them in order to stop an Officer from issuing a beating to a misbehaving trooper.  Pembridge was later murdered by the Officer (no evidence is available to the general public-- only key individuals know about this).  The PK was valid because it still followed through with the guidelines posted on the forums, despite the illegal act of the Officer murdering the Marine in coldblood for revenge.

 

There is little to nothing that could be done regarding the In-Character actions of all characters involved.

 

Kerr was explicitly in the wrong for threatening his superiors.  In fact, the Starship Troopers novel discusses the lengths in which a subordinate is truly at the mercy of their superiors.  Even if a superior were to strike down a subordinate, if that superior did not perform any illegal actions (such as rendering a trooper unfit for duty outside of court-issued punishments, inhumane treatment of subordinates, or general asshattery) then no legal action or physical harm would befall that superior.  If a Corporal were to, within just reason, issue punishment to a Private First Class, that PFC would be required to follow through with the punishments.  If that Corporal were to act with illegal intent (or even without intent), then the PFC would have to file reports with the Corporal's superiors after the incident.  Naturally, a superior beating someone to death can't wait for a higher ranking member to make themselves available.

 

The Colonels were well within their right to secure their safety.  A trooper that directly threatens a superior is already on the chopping block for a General Court Martial that will end in either execution or dishonorable discharge.  However, there could be legal ramifications regarding the chronological order of events.  For example: the Colonel joined in the fight and despite Kerr attempting to surrender, the Colonel continued to inflict severe harm upon the surrendering subordinate.  But that type of action will require IC investigation.

 

 

IC is IC.  And IC actions will be investigated ICly.

 

But, let's discuss more about why you believe that the player behind Larsen did not follow proper guidelines for the PK itself.  What proof/evidence can you provide to refute Xalphox's PK upon Kerr, based on the pre-established guidelines?

 

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@Tonic

 

(1) I was never warned that I would be killed for acts of self defense.

(2) I was not performing a act of heroism, or stupidity 

(3) I was told 3 times to take off my belt only twice the third I finally took it off and the fight committed.

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@LoadedGun, seeing as how you were directly involved in the process, could you please provide a breakdown of the events in chronological order?

 

If you have the memory to do so, please indicate any/all times that a warning was issued to Kerr.

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On 10/8/2017 at 8:56 AM, Ares said:

(3) From what I can remember there where no attempts to make him surrender at anytime before the fight involved a firearm, There where 3 Marines there and you didint ask them to cuff ares while he was knocked out or attempt to stop the fight if I remember correctly Larson said "Stand down Marines."

To begin with, the warnings that were given to Ares were rather abundant. ICly even, though I can say with confidence that OOCly; nothing was said to the main party of what their actions entailed.

 

1. The beginning of the confrontation between Sergeant Clanton and a Senior Specialist started, resulting in a brawl. I myself wasn't present at the time I was in the stairwell when it began.

 

2. The brawl continued for maybe a good two minutes and a 'panic button' had been pressed to alert all marines of Kerr's situation. About this time when both marines and MI gathered around to spectate, Colonel Larsen ordered all marines to stand down, and for Kerr to stop. But, alas Kerr continued to wrestle the sergeant and gain the upper-hand. [1] Warning so far

 

3. Now at this point in time, the Colonel asked for the assistance of MI to manually stop the physical confrontation between both parties. Once both Colonel Larsen, Corporal Johansson, and Colonel Ramsey approached. A weapon was drawn at their general direction; at the same time, Colonel Ramsey, and Corporal Johansson were able to safely acquire the weapon. During this short period, Corporal Johansson gave another warning and told him to stand down. [2] Total

 

4. Lastly, while Johansson held the marine at gun point. The rest that were involved attempted to subdue Ares Kerr, he still continued his resistance against those, even lashing out at Johansson and striking him successfully.  These actions resulted in the order of his death.

 

 

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1 hour ago, LoadedGun said:

olonel Larsen ordered all marines to stand down, and for Kerr to stop.

This was given to the two others marines as moments after the Col. Said he wanted to see how the fight would end up.

1 hour ago, LoadedGun said:

The rest that were involved attempted to subdue Ares Kerr,

As stated before no attempt to "subdue" or detain Ares was taken, after they got the gun the first time he got it back once then they took it once more and he was at gun point, this is when the order was given.

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13 minutes ago, Ares said:

As stated before no attempt to "subdue" or detain Ares was taken, after they got the gun the first time he got it back once then they took it once more and he was at gun point, this is when the order was given.

This is not true. As Lieutenant Bailey was in attendance at this point and I specifically witnessed two times Kerr was told to stand down. At one point Larsen actually successfully grabbed Kerr's arms, Kerr continued to fight against Larsen and Larsen ended up releasing him when Johansson was instructed to shoot the man.

 

 

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I will go ahead and lock this thread while I head into the remote console in order to pull up logs of the engagement.

 

Once the debate on whether or not Kerr continued to defy their superiors' orders or threatened their superiors is settled, it'll be easier to proceed to the final portion of the appeal.

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I've finished combing through the logs on the server.

 

The PK Appeal is denied on the grounds that the PK itself followed proper procedures and was warranted based on the victim's actions.

 

Nothing will be done regarding the actions taken by the characters who acted against Ares.  IC is IC and will be investigated ICly by specific persons that I will personally assign to the task as Zaiger, if even Zaiger determines there to be a need to do so.

 


Legitimacy of the actions...

 

There were moments where the victim was told to cease their actions, even when ordered to do so by superiors.  The victim continued to threaten all persons around them through their actions.  The victim even drew a firearm at their superiors.  This is a direct violation of Article 90 of the UCMJ & Federal Law.  This does not need to be drilled into anyone's head because this is common sense-- you don't threaten or assault your superiors, regardless of if you are acting out of self-defence.  The only exception were to be if you were literally being murdered, but naturally that'd be more difficult to do when in public.  But even with that being said, this Article 90 should be common knowledge to every Marine, as it is literally one of the EIGHT articles that each Marine is absolutely required to keep track of and is linked to numerous times throughout the majority of the important Internal Security threads.  Here are the eight articles in question.

 

Please note, that one of the reasons used to enforce a CK on another character is if...

On 7/22/2017 at 10:54 PM, Xalphox said:

They weren't simply following the orders of a superior officer.

Referenced here.

 

The bullet points aren't "and this, and this, and this...".  They're and/or.  However, I will throw in a second point to help drive home the point I am trying to make...

On 7/22/2017 at 10:54 PM, Xalphox said:

They were knowingly performing an act of heroism or stupidity outside the duties of a normal Mobile Infantry. Most frequently this is fulfilled by an act of heroism or similar. This isn't to say heroism is banned; only that with heroic action comes risk commensurate with the likely reward you will receive if you succeed.

Heroism is strictly defined as 

great bravery

Bravery is defined as

courageous behavior or character

And courage is defined as

the ability to do something that frightens one
strength in the face of pain or grief

 

My point is that the victim acted heroically, in the face of danger, regardless of the threats that they were facing, while disobeying the orders of their superiors.

 

CK procedures were followed.

 

 


Was the victim the aggressor's superior?...

 

Just because a Marine is assigned to investigate a topic or incident does not grant that Marine everlasting Master Sergeant, either.  Per Federal Article 41, it states that...

 

Article 41 - Authority of the Federation Fleet Marine Corps to investigate and prosecute offences

Except where otherwise mentioned, a Federation Fleet Marine, where in the performance of their duties as a Federation Fleet Marine, acts with the authority of a Master Sergeant

 

Per the logs, the victim/Marine in question was not performing or acting out their duties, as they had purposefully deviated from their investigation to inquire in an entirely unrelated matter with the soon-to-be-aggressor.  The Marine was not Clanton's superior, and therefore was subject to punishment for giving lip to the NCO.  

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