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PeaceKeeper2018

Yumi Nakamura PK Appeal

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Alright, before I get to the appeal, I just wanna say that regardless of the outcome, I will respect it and move on. I know some will probably call me a whiner or baby but I personally think the PK given wasn't really valid and here's why.

 

Near the end of the base assault event yesterday, I found myself with MSgt.Bellic at the location my squad, Orange Squad, was ordered to hold. I followed the order and covered a hall to the left, which Bellic and I covered. I was a sizable distance behind her against the left wall after she had said there's contact nearby (or something on the lines of that). So, I kept my distance and crouched. She fired around the corner and the walker came up, engaging us.

 

This is the part where my PK Appeal comes in. When it came around the corner, it was shooting and I slowly began to walk back crouched. However, when it came up to me and hit me, I got pushed into a position where I couldn't even attempt to move and avoid its attacks due to the game sticking me in prone (I tried to sprint backwards away but I got stuck). It was there where I died in game and received my injuries.

 

Now my other points come up after I receive my injuries. Anton Vulker calls for a Medic and the medic arrives. Now, you would assume he'd try to help and patch up my wounds (A pierced left lung and plasma that burned my armor) but immediately whipped out morphine and ODd me on it without him telling Cpl Vulker until after he did, not even informing the squad leader or highest rank around him of the A6 he PMd me (Bellic was around, Cpl Vulker was around and I believe SSGT Kowalski was as well). I looked up the possibilities of surviving serious lung punctures or burns and it is possible, with actual treatment, that you can survive. 

 

My next point was that I was informed my PK was the result of me being ahead of the Mauraders often and that I was warned often not to. However, I  haven't been warned almost at all during the base assault event. Nothing on the radio, no yelling, nothing at all, not even a PM. I have not been warned of being ahead of the Mauraders and, at most, I was beside them or like a yard ahead of them and never got in their line of fire. I received no warnings or anything; only thing I heard was Takayahama yelling my name so that I'd stay close to the squad after being a bit behind after turning the wrong way. So received no warnings frtom my superiors andbi didn't stand in the way of the Mauraders and stuck to the sides to space myself from them. 

 

My main issues are laid out and I would happily answer any and all questions. 

 

To sum up:

-I got stuck unwillingly in a situation I couldn't even escape (stuck in prone and unable to move in game at all without an ability to get up and run)

- The medic neglected to try and patch me up and immediately moved to A6 me without informing my squad leader or my second squad leader (He didnt even announced I was A6d after he did so and announced I was KIA over the radio, not A6d)

- The basis of my PK due to me rushing ahead of the Mauraders isn't valid cause I was never warned ICly or OOCly by anyone at any point during the base assault event (No yells, no basic orders or statements or anything came up about that during the event. I remember Takayama yelling my name just to get me back on the right track after turning the opposite way down the hall)

 

I hope I can answer any questions and I also hope this helped outline my appeal in an organized manner. I wish I had screenshot evidence however I thought nothing of it after thinking making an appeal was a bad idea and I, honestly, am sorta afraid of being chastised or mocked or made fun of last time due to a negative experience in another community. 

 

-Thanks

PeaceKeeper 

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Alright so, il explain the process of to why the injury was so severe,

 

At the time, as I saw from running the event you pushed out further than the entire squad, and Kowalski ordered you to return to formation, you did not, meaning you ended up pushing ahead of the front and as to be expected in the front of a formation, you were fired upon by alot of the Progenitors and hit very hard by a progenitor beam rifle, now plasma rounds work to where they are super heated glass so they would melt your Kevlar and stab you, resulting injury being quite severe, many heavy injuries were handed out and it was up to the medic's discretion due to the IC lack of medical supplies we had, whether or not you lived, so the A6 was approved in the right situation, People got heavily injured due to the situation and unfortunately it comes down to this, You pushed too far forward, and got hit. 

 

Secondly I understand prone can be HEAVILY difficult sometimes even in this circumstance, but you were given orders to fall back, and if you had listened to orders you could of stayed back in the formation like @Cronk had told you to. I mean this in the constructive sense, as I held no bias towards you handing out the injury and even Edwards received a life threatening injury that he barely survived.

 

Any other queries or qualms please do feel free to bring them up.

 

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First thing is first:

 

@Valkrae @Kris @Heresiarch Grimm @cat danny 25 @Archer

 

The next time you violate these rules ("Unless we say otherwise, do not reply to a complaint or an appeal unless you were involved and have something material to contribute - for example, your testimony of what happened, pictures of evidence") I will ban you from the forums and admins will receive suspensions. The rules are there for a reason - appeals are not discussion threads, they are fact finding missions led by an XA.

 

I'll deal with this appeal personally when I get home.

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Alright - as mentioned previously, I will be handling this appeal. It turned into a huge mess as a result of half the fucking community violating the "don't reply unless you were involved" rule - thus I think it'll be better for everyone if we just start over.

 

23 hours ago, PeaceKeeper2018 said:

-I got stuck unwillingly in a situation I couldn't even escape (stuck in prone and unable to move in game at all without an ability to get up and run)

This is unfortunately a claim that everybody who has ever been PKed has made in some manner or form - and it is near impossible for us to discern who's telling the truth or who's lying. Absent proof I'm afraid we can't take this seriously as if we did the precedent set would mean anyone and everyone who is ever PKed can simply lay down the "I was stuck" card and we'll have no choice but to overturn it.

 

Quote

- The medic neglected to try and patch me up and immediately moved to A6 me without informing my squad leader or my second squad leader (He didnt even announced I was A6d after he did so and announced I was KIA over the radio, not A6d)

This is an incompetence on the part of the medic: one of the things we're striving for more at SSTRP at the moment is to make the actions of players more consequential. Whilst I recognize this is probably frustrating for you as the victim, I would expect the medic to face a court-martial on ship and if the way you describe it is true, I would expect them to be facing the gallows (or at least a lengthy prison sentence). More than that - anyone who covers it up or fails to report it should face courts-martial of their own - all the way up to being wilful accessories.

 

 

I hope that this is at least a small consolation. 

 

Quote

- The basis of my PK due to me rushing ahead of the Mauraders isn't valid cause I was never warned ICly or OOCly by anyone at any point during the base assault event (No yells, no basic orders or statements or anything came up about that during the event. I remember Takayama yelling my name just to get me back on the right track after turning the opposite way down the hall)

This is the only part that could yield a successful appeal. 

 

@PeaceKeeper2018: Cipher claims that you pushed ahead whilst @Cronk (as Kowalski) ordered you to hold - do you refute this? If yes, why? If no, why should that not serve as a wilful act of heroism that led to your demise?

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51 minutes ago, Xalphox said:

 

 

Alright - as mentioned previously, I will be handling this appeal. It turned into a huge mess as a result of half the fucking community violating the "don't reply unless you were involved" rule - thus I think it'll be better for everyone if we just start over.

 

This is unfortunately a claim that everybody who has ever been PKed has made in some manner or form - and it is near impossible for us to discern who's telling the truth or who's lying. Absent proof I'm afraid we can't take this seriously as if we did the precedent set would mean anyone and everyone who is ever PKed can simply lay down the "I was stuck" card and we'll have no choice but to overturn it.

 

This is an incompetence on the part of the medic: one of the things we're striving for more at SSTRP at the moment is to make the actions of players more consequential. Whilst I recognize this is probably frustrating for you as the victim, I would expect the medic to face a court-martial on ship and if the way you describe it is true, I would expect them to be facing the gallows (or at least a lengthy prison sentence). More than that - anyone who covers it up or fails to report it should face courts-martial of their own - all the way up to being wilful accessories.

 

 

I hope that this is at least a small consolation. 

 

This is the only part that could yield a successful appeal. 

 

@PeaceKeeper2018: Cipher claims that you pushed ahead whilst @Cronk (as Kowalski) ordered you to hold - do you refute this? If yes, why? If no, why should that not serve as a wilful act of heroism that led to your demise?

I kindly refute that I pushed too far ahead when Kowalski gave us the order to hold. One reason was that when we were told to hold, we were also told to take up defensive positions and I went to secure the hall MSGT. Bellic had taken position at. I hadn't moved from that position, which was close to the rest of Orange Squad. I hadn't moved an inch from that position and followed the order given (which was at the moment we were heading out of the base.) However, before then, I had not received any orders from Kowalski or the 2iC in terms of straying too far multiple times (Scar, who plays Joshua Edwards, one of the Mauraders, has said that he hadn't heard any orders from Orange Squad Lead or 2iC that was directed towards me or any warnings of straying too far ahead. No yells, radioed commas or any form of warning me or ordering me.) Kowalski did not communicate any warnings to me about straying too far if I had and I have not defied the order to hold before the PK was given. I hadn't moved an inch and Cpl. Vulker gave the order to hold at that time, not SSGT. Kowalski. 

 

At no point had Kowalski, Takayama or Vulker warned me that I was straying too far if I was or ordered me to pull myself back. If being two yards ahead of the squad is too far, Kowalski or Takayama or Vulker did not communicate any yells or orders warning me that I was. I was not approached by any of them at any time in concerns towards that at any time such as the moment we found the room with the radio or when we had stopped to secure an area before we had left the first part of the facility. None of them communicated orders or warnings pertaining to that and I was not too far ahead of the squad (2-3 yards out from the squad is still in range of the squad leader to hear any warnings or orders. 

 

When we were ordered to hold, Cpl. Vulker was the one who communicated that order and I followed that order that was given before my injury was received. I had not defied that order. 

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2 hours ago, PeaceKeeper2018 said:

I kindly refute that I pushed too far ahead when Kowalski gave us the order to hold. One reason was that when we were told to hold, we were also told to take up defensive positions and I went to secure the hall MSGT. Bellic had taken position at. I hadn't moved from that position, which was close to the rest of Orange Squad. I hadn't moved an inch from that position and followed the order given (which was at the moment we were heading out of the base.) However, before then, I had not received any orders from Kowalski or the 2iC in terms of straying too far multiple times (Scar, who plays Joshua Edwards, one of the Mauraders, has said that he hadn't heard any orders from Orange Squad Lead or 2iC that was directed towards me or any warnings of straying too far ahead. No yells, radioed commas or any form of warning me or ordering me.) Kowalski did not communicate any warnings to me about straying too far if I had and I have not defied the order to hold before the PK was given. I hadn't moved an inch and Cpl. Vulker gave the order to hold at that time, not SSGT. Kowalski. 

 

At no point had Kowalski, Takayama or Vulker warned me that I was straying too far if I was or ordered me to pull myself back. If being two yards ahead of the squad is too far, Kowalski or Takayama or Vulker did not communicate any yells or orders warning me that I was. I was not approached by any of them at any time in concerns towards that at any time such as the moment we found the room with the radio or when we had stopped to secure an area before we had left the first part of the facility. None of them communicated orders or warnings pertaining to that and I was not too far ahead of the squad (2-3 yards out from the squad is still in range of the squad leader to hear any warnings or orders. 

 

When we were ordered to hold, Cpl. Vulker was the one who communicated that order and I followed that order that was given before my injury was received. I had not defied that order. 

 

@Cipher Did he advance significantly ahead of the squad?

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@Xalphox 
At the time from what I saw, it seemed as I had seen, Numi had pushed forward ahead of the marauders, due to this it seemed like they were pushing ahead, and once I saw the message from Kowalski stating that the marauders were to go first, I did not see her fall back but she continued on, then came the injury inwhich was life threatening, but it seemed the PK was handed on the part of Medical, as I said before, Many heavy injuries were handed out during that event.

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15 minutes ago, Cipher said:

@Xalphox 
At the time from what I saw, it seemed as I had seen, Numi had pushed forward ahead of the marauders, due to this it seemed like they were pushing ahead, and once I saw the message from Kowalski stating that the marauders were to go first, I did not see her fall back but she continued on, then came the injury inwhich was life threatening, but it seemed the PK was handed on the part of Medical, as I said before, Many heavy injuries were handed out during that event.

If I may kindly refute this.

 

That's not how it went down when before and at the time of the injury. Before the injury, the squads were ordered out and the Mauraders didn't even lead the way out. MSGT. Bellic and the rest of Orange Squad led the way out. MSGT. Bellic and I were among those at the front, who were shot at repeatedly by blackhole shots by the enemy during the event. Orange Squad was at the front and Kowalski didn't give out an order and, instead, Cpl. Vulker gave out an order when we reached the hall intersection near the exit of the other half of the installation that led to the outside gap to secure the area and hold. In fact, I remember clearly seeing Cpl. Vulker taking a position in the middle and telling the squad to take up defensive positions on all sides of the hall except the way we came from and Spc. Takayama took a position inside the room behind Cpl. Vulker.

 

At the time of the injury, most of Orange Squad was at the front with MSGT. Bellic leading us through. The injury was handed at the point when we were ordered to hold and secure the area, which I did do even when MSGT. Bellic engaged an enemy walker on Orange Squad's left flank, which resulted in the walker coming around the corner and pretty much engaging both her and I in combat, where I got hit by a melee attack, which knocked me back and got me stuck in prone and got me the injury in the first place. And, if you must know, MSGT. Bellic engaged the enemy walker, which caused it to walk out to her and attack on Orange Squad's left flank.

 

If you don't remember, we were sent out to secure the way for Blue Squad and the leaders of the drop after we heard Neons were converging on the base's location. There were not any communications involving the Mauraders or anything relating to ordering me or warning me back to rejoin the squad when the entire squad, which included an attached medic AND MSGT. Bellic leading the way back, were basically an inch away from each other during that moment. And, during the entire operation, there was no word from the squad lead or the 2iC or Cpl. Vulker pertaining to WARNING or ORDERING ME to rejoin the squad because I was too far, if I even was too far ahead. And, if I was, I would've been encountered by Kowalski when he had a breather inside the room with the radio inside or even by the 2iC or Cpl. Vulker. However, none of that occurred and I remember clearly being able to hear any yells or read any orders from where I was and none of them pertained to me being way far out, ordering or warning me that I was too far ahead.

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Have deleted the other posts as they were off on a tangent and devolving into another shit storm. Anyone who wants to post here - please get my permission first (right now just @PeaceKeeper2018, @Cipher and now @Cronk) or post at the invitation of @PeaceKeeper2018

 

The rightfulness of the medic in executing the A6 is an IC issue and should be dealt with IC (via courts-martial) - it isn't pertinent to a PK appeal.

 

I've checked the logs and I can clearly see Mikalya Kowalski telling orange to hold 2 minutes before you were shot ([AdminLog] 18:22:34 - Mikayla Kowalski [RADIO]: Orange. Hold; [AdminLog] 18:24:03 - EVENT: Nakaamara is hit with plasma breaching her left lung and burning through her kevlar.) - so the question is, did you hold or continue to advance? @PeaceKeeper2018 @Cipher @Cronk

 

@Cipher was the injury inflicted with the intention of causing death

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Just now, Xalphox said:

Have deleted the other posts as they were off on a tangent and devolving into another shit storm. Anyone who wants to post here - please get my permission first (right now just @PeaceKeeper2018, @Cipher and now @Cronk) or post at the invitation of @PeaceKeeper2018

 

The rightfulness of the medic in executing the A6 is an IC issue and should be dealt with IC (via courts-martial) - it isn't pertinent to a PK appeal.

 

I've checked the logs and I can clearly see Mikalya Kowalski telling orange to hold 2 minutes before you were shot ([AdminLog] 18:22:34 - Mikayla Kowalski [RADIO]: Orange. Hold; [AdminLog] 18:24:03 - EVENT: Nakaamara is hit with plasma breaching her left lung and burning through her kevlar.) - so the question is, did you hold or continue to advance? @PeaceKeeper2018 @Cipher @Cronk

I held my position at the time stamp. I was with MSGT. Bellic and MSGT. Bellic moved from her position, which was close to mine, which led to the firefight with the walker and then my in-game death, which led to the IC injury.

 

In between the time of 18:22:34 and 1824:03, I held my position on the left flank of the area we covered and I took cover on the left wall and stayed there. MSGT. Bellic was on the right wall of me, about five or so yards away and left her position to engage a walker on the other side.

 

Again, I held my position and did not continue to advance. I did not walk, sprint or jog forward, but crouched and held my position when we arrived at our location and Cpl. Vulker told us to hold, then SSGT. Kowalski told us to hold. I crouched and held my position.

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1. I've also consulted one or two other players, they said you were in prone, didn't move and got punted by the hunter. They stated. 

"Master Sergeant Bellic and Nakamura had already pushed ahead when the order to "Hold" was given, having set up in the tunnel."
 

"During the interaction with TWO hunters Nakamura was prone to Takayama's left. The hunter entered on her side and targeted her instantly, shooting once before charging at her and punting her into the corner of a building and a wall, from there the hunter fired another volley at her and killed her. Takayama and Bellic then killed it."

 

You said something about being stuck. You could've argued that point at the time and it most likely would've been voided. All this could've been fixed there and then if you simple /reported it. Nearly 10 seconds between damage period from the hunter.

 

[AdminLog] 09:21:07 - Peace Keeper 2014 has taken 4 damage from a npc_hunter

[AdminLog] 09:21:16 - Peace Keeper 2014 has taken 20 damage from a npc_hunter

[AdminLog] 09:21:16 - Peace Keeper 2014 has been killed by a npc_hunter

 

2. The Master Sergeant was not the Squad Leader nor were they directed to lead the way, the squad orders, that had been broadcasted. Were proceed outside. Which we knew, was up. Not down. Considering we had come through it, not 5 minutes prior to reaching there. The issue I see with this at least is, none of Orange, which included 1 or 2 others, had any reason to follow the Master Sergeant.

 

3. I agree, the wound was harsh, but it was up to the medic to determine the A6. My character knew the efforts of SSgt. Dahlstrom would've been futile and have more than likely wasted valuable medical supplies. At the time, we were extremely limited on. 

Fifth degree

Damage from burns of this degree affects all soft tissues and all organs in the affected area and might even damage the bone to some extent. Chances of survival are virtually none, and very rare individuals that did survive had to have the affected region amputated.

 

4. Earlier, NieR acting as 2iC while Rook was AFK getting some soup. He was alerted to the fact that members on the squad ran off following blue and/or command squad members. It was a blanket statement for all of Orange.

[AdminLog] 08:58:43 - ❤Mocks NieR's character x2❤ used /radio. Arguments were Orange, stop bunching up with blue and stop wandering off. Stick with your SQUAD leader.

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6 minutes ago, Cronk said:

1. I've also consulted one or two other players, they said you were in prone, didn't move and got punted by the hunter. They stated. 

"Master Sergeant Bellic and Nakamura had already pushed ahead when the order to "Hold" was given, having set up in the tunnel."
 

"During the interaction with TWO hunters Nakamura was prone to Takayama's left. The hunter entered on her side and targeted her instantly, shooting once before charging at her and punting her into the corner of a building and a wall, from there the hunter fired another volley at her and killed her. Takayama and Bellic then killed it."

 

You said something about being stuck. You could've argued that point at the time and it most likely would've been voided. All this could've been fixed there and then if you simple /reported it. Nearly 10 seconds between damage period from the hunter.

 

[AdminLog] 09:21:07 - Peace Keeper 2014 has taken 4 damage from a npc_hunter

[AdminLog] 09:21:16 - Peace Keeper 2014 has taken 20 damage from a npc_hunter

[AdminLog] 09:21:16 - Peace Keeper 2014 has been killed by a npc_hunter

 

2. The Master Sergeant was not the Squad Leader nor were they directed to lead the way, the squad orders, that had been broadcasted. Were proceed outside. Which we knew, was up. Not down. Considering we had come through it, not 5 minutes prior to reaching there. The issue I see with this at least is, none of Orange, which included 1 or 2 others, had any reason to follow the Master Sergeant.

 

3. I agree, the wound was harsh, but it was up to the medic to determine the A6. My character knew the efforts of SSgt. Dahlstrom would've been futile and have more than likely wasted valuable medical supplies. At the time, we were extremely limited on. 

Fifth degree

Damage from burns of this degree affects all soft tissues and all organs in the affected area and might even damage the bone to some extent. Chances of survival are virtually none, and very rare individuals that did survive had to have the affected region amputated.

 

4. Earlier, NieR acting as 2iC while Rook was AFK getting some soup. He was alerted to the fact that members on the squad ran off following blue and/or command squad members. It was a blanket statement for all of Orange.

[AdminLog] 08:58:43 - ❤Mocks NieR's character x2❤ used /radio. Arguments were Orange, stop bunching up with blue and stop wandering off. Stick with your SQUAD leader.

Your point about me being stuck and the lack of arguing it was twofold:

1. Arguing with anyone during the event, particularly with someone who would probably ask for any evidence of you being stuck (Which was asked anyway and I dont blame anyone for asking that, even for those who do ask on the spot because of a point brought up earlier where people claim that way too often to the point that, without evidence, is pretty much mute), to me, wasn't really warranted and me going to the length of arguing it with him would cause problems and, to be honest, previous experience with admins on various other RP servers about this discouraged me from even bringing it up except to argue about the survivability of the wound inflicted.

2. Of course, it's no excuse to never bring it up, but my character was voided a Suicide PK before and Im one that is more worried about people looking at me OOC as a whiner or anything that would probably start things like jokes on the TS or jokes on the forums. This also played into my worries of even bringing it up to the person who just inflicted my wound and the person who handled my PK/A6 as I know people on here have a unique sense of humor and, with access to TS, could spark things like jokes or insults, etc. I know it's not an excuse, but for me, this is a legit concern of mine to every community I play in and enter and that plays into the major things that occur to me or my character during RP moments.

 

2. On the medical bit you brought up, even with a short supply of medical supplies to use, you still would at least try your best with what you have. Thing about medics are that medics can be very adept and skilled to saving the lives of troopers and, even if you don't have proper equipment, trying something that probably won't work but may doesn't hurt. In fact, if it doesn't work, at least you know for that type of wound that the technique used doesn't work. At least trying and failing is what a medic should do in a medical emergancy despite the severity of the wound itself. Even if blood is spewing out like a fountain of a certain wound or multiple wounds or anything, a medic would try to stop the bleeding or to try to keep the soldier alive by any means necessary, even if you don't have some of the means to do it. Saving lives is a medic's mission alongside fighting alongside his or her compatriots and trying to do everything you can is among one of the methods that can be used to accomplish it. Even if a wound looks grave, a medic should take a deep breath and try a method or two on a wounded trooper to see if he or she can last longer than just by glancing at it and shaking your head.

 

3. Your point about Bellic misses the point about why I brought up Bellic in the first place. I knew Kowalski was the Squad Leader as seen in my many posts from earlier. When the order was given to move out, guess who was at the front of the squad and the movement? MSGT. Bellic. No one thought Bellic was Squad Lead nor did anyone directly follow Bellic. If everyone was following Bellic, everyone would've taken up a position where Bellic was past the point Orange Squad stopped, which was at the intersection we were told to hold at and around Bellic's position, which was further ahead than mine.

 

In terms of engaging it, Bellic engaged the Hunter, which caused it to move forward and engage both her and I. Regardless of the engagement, the point is is that I didn't think she was squad lead and I didn't follow her out and instead only retraced steps back the way we came.

 

4. Now, in terms of your radio point, the issue here is that while everyone said that they warned me and tried to order me to rendezvous back to the squad, they are implying that they directly ordered or warned me about separating from the squad at anytime or at any distance. In fact, Scar's statement, which was acknowledged by Xel and then removed, stated that I was a meter away from the Maurader. And, my distance was minimal from the squad and within the confines of a couple yards, under five yards 2-3 yards away at the most from the squad. If the Squad Leader, 2iC and anyone else had ordered me and warned me several times, then they would've taken me aside at an appropriate time (there were like 3 different opportunities to do so via Radio, /y yelling or even just saying something using normal chat) and ordered or warned me about separating from the squad from any range what-so-ever, even if it meant 2-3 yards ahead. Kowalski and the 2iC had a chance multiple times to do what they said they did earlier, which was warn me directly or order me directly to stick with the squad or not to sprint ahead, if I even did that which I hadn't really did because Scar's statement documented that there was an individual or two who did that more than I did. (I hadn't surpassed their sightline and stayed relatively close to the Squad and/or unit. Which leads me back to the radio transmission which was not as described earlier as a directed warning or order towards me to stop going ahead, even if the distance was minescule, or warning me about it. The arguments made here in the thread before yours was that I was directly warned and ordered to rejoin the formation like in the following quote:

 

"At the time, as I saw from running the event you pushed out further than the entire squad, and Kowalski ordered you to return to formation, you did not, meaning you ended up pushing ahead of the front." - Cipher

 

Cipher here said that I was basically DIRECTLY ordered from Kowalski at the time of this incident to return to formation. However, this was not true as not only didn't I receieve such a direct order or warning from Kowalski, but the Maurader at the front, Joshua Edwards, did not either; no /y statements, no orders directly to me or warnings directly to me from Kowalski during that time. Your radio statement was pertaining to the entirety of Orange Squad and was not a warning or direct order from Kowalski to rejoin the unit, which I never got because Kowalski didn't give such an order or warning at any point during the event, even during the points of the event where Kowalski should've clearly done so. Even at that point, Kowalski never shouted or said or even radioed in an order DIRECTED to me about straying too far from the squad and warning me that Im straying too far from the squad. Not at any one point. 

 

Now, you may point and laugh at my first point, but it's no laughing matter when the point of being stuck is being thrown out there so many times, that without proof, it's not worth considering. I understand that completely as anyone can abuse such a claim and get away scott free if it's not true. However, as Xel stated, without proof, the point is mute and many users in RP servers all over Gmod abuse the argument in PK appeals many times and it has no doubt been abused by many here, most of them probably not even still playing on the server. However, the worry is real and the fact that I didn't screencap it at the time or recorded it pretty much eliminated it from my list arguments alongside the points I brought up when I started this reply post. I understand that now, since people are abusing that kind of PK appeal point or report, you'd need proof. Completely understand. However, when you are having a dialogue on the spot and have no proof of it whatsoever, many different outcomes can occur and many of them are not so pleasant if you weren't expecting to be stuck in the first place and have no proof of it. Im not assuming all admins would be mean about it and demand proof and I know that some of you admins are great and fair people that I'd love to get to know and joke around with. However, the worry is still there and even if you did /report it, proof would've been asked like a screenshot or anything. I was not expecting to get hit that hard or hit at all and I was not expecting to get stuck. So, the point of the worry about how an admin would feel on the spot when confronted with an abused reason for a voided PK was real for me and is kinda worrying to others, however it's understandable because of how often that card is pulled and, if you didn't see it coming, you wouldn't have evidence to support it despite it being true if it is and you weren't prepared at all to be either PKd or even stuck or hit at all.

 

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8 minutes ago, PeaceKeeper2018 said:

3. Your point about Bellic misses the point about why I brought up Bellic in the first place. I knew Kowalski was the Squad Leader as seen in my many posts from earlier. When the order was given to move out, guess who was at the front of the squad and the movement? MSGT. Bellic. No one thought Bellic was Squad Lead nor did anyone directly follow Bellic. If everyone was following Bellic, everyone would've taken up a position where Bellic was past the point Orange Squad stopped, which was at the intersection we were told to hold at and around Bellic's position, which was further ahead than mine.

The point in which we were meant to be heading was right. Bellic continued forward, people followed. Hence why I ordered the squad to halt. You may not have meant to do it, but that's my point.

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1 minute ago, Cronk said:

The point in which we were meant to be heading was right. Bellic continued forward, people followed. Hence why I ordered the squad to halt. You may not have meant to do it, but that's my point.

Thing was, I wasn't really directly following her out if that was your point, cause I knew who squad lead was and when I saw the order to hold and take up positions, I took up a position that not many really covered. The bulk of the cover was at the center and towards the exit. 

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The concerns I have (and these are for the admin team) over this PK is it sounds like:

 

1. He was told to hold and he held. No violation of an order there. 

 

2. He was parallel with or behind a Master Sergeant, thus he was not being especially reckless. 

 

3. I am wondering whether it was ever Cipher's intent to kill the player: with hindsight it seems obvious, but in the heat of the moment whilst running the event? If not, that makes this a death by technicality and I really do hate those. 

 

4. I see no evidence of Nakamura suffering any injury in the hour preceding it, nor can I see any suggestions from admin chat that he was taking risks throughout the event.

 

Are these accurate? 

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1. At the time he did not hold, he had continued to push, which @HazyDay @Cronk @Scar will develope upon.

 

2, The master sergeant at the time was acting completely nuts, as it seemed she was taking the squad in a wrong direction which resulted in them being attacked.

 

3. My intent was to give a lethal injury with the poetential to kill.

 

4. Thoughout the Event it was seen that she kept pushing out and I believed at the time she was disobeying orders and trying to do the Hero complex.

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43 minutes ago, Cipher said:

1. At the time he did not hold, he had continued to push, which @HazyDay @Cronk @Scar will develope upon.

 

2, The master sergeant at the time was acting completely nuts, as it seemed she was taking the squad in a wrong direction which resulted in them being attacked.

 

3. My intent was to give a lethal injury with the poetential to kill.

 

4. Thoughout the Event it was seen that she kept pushing out and I believed at the time she was disobeying orders and trying to do the Hero complex.

 

1. I held my position, which Cronk eluded to. 

 

2. Yeah, following orders is a hero complex. Please, all you wanna do is keep this PK up despite how unnecessarily harsh and unwarranted it was, especially if I didn't disobey orders nor did act recklessly. Not only that, but Scar, Cronk and two other players plus me have stated that i didnt move from my position, which you claimed that I did. Even Xal has found no evidence from chat logs of it.

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Since I have been pulled in, yes, the character was not following orders. 

 

By their own admission, they were with Bellic, who was not part of the squad. Bellic had pushed forward, Nakamura pushed as well, after the order to hold came in. 

 

This can be solved simply. The character should not have even been with Bellic in the first place, but should have stayed with the orange squad. No matter if a direct or blanket order was given, there was no reason for her to be with Bellic. 

 

The Marauder noted her in front of him, which is a place she should not have been. As an experienced player and character, they know to stay behind the Marauder. If you are infront of the Marauder, you've fucked up. 

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19 minutes ago, HazyDay said:

Since I have been pulled in, yes, the character was not following orders. 

 

By their own admission, they were with Bellic, who was not part of the squad. Bellic had pushed forward, Nakamura pushed as well, after the order to hold came in. 

 

This can be solved simply. The character should not have even been with Bellic in the first place, but should have stayed with the orange squad. No matter if a direct or blanket order was given, there was no reason for her to be with Bellic. 

 

The Marauder noted her in front of him, which is a place she should not have been. As an experienced player and character, they know to stay behind the Marauder. If you are infront of the Marauder, you've fucked up. 

I did not break a damn order. I HELD my position, if you didn't realize it. This can be solved simply by actually being there and seeing with your own eyes, which go against your argument. I took up position with Bellic on one of the flanks and STAYED THERE. I was ORDERED TO HOLD AND I HELD, which was supported by Cronk's statement which he got from two players WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE TO SEE IT, alongside what he discovered from the server damage logs. Scar's statement evrrn said I was only a METER IN FRONT AND IT ONLY HAPPENED ONCE.

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22 minutes ago, HazyDay said:

Since I have been pulled in, yes, the character was not following orders. 

 

By their own admission, they were with Bellic, who was not part of the squad. Bellic had pushed forward, Nakamura pushed as well, after the order to hold came in. 

 

This can be solved simply. The character should not have even been with Bellic in the first place, but should have stayed with the orange squad. No matter if a direct or blanket order was given, there was no reason for her to be with Bellic. 

 

The Marauder noted her in front of him, which is a place she should not have been. As an experienced player and character, they know to stay behind the Marauder. If you are infront of the Marauder, you've fucked up. 

I know you and Cipher are friends but YOU shouldn't be in here if you weren't there to manage the event, witness the PK in question, observed what happened or had a r ole to play.

 

I invite @Scar to add his statementv since he had firsthand witnessed this unlike you, Hazy.

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2 minutes ago, PeaceKeeper2018 said:

I did not break a damn order. I HELD my position, if you didn't realize it. This can be solved simply by actually being there and seeing with your own eyes, which go against your argument. I took up position with Bellic on one of the flanks and STAYED THERE. I was ORDERED TO HOLD AND I HELD, which was supported by Cronk's statement which he got from two players WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE TO SEE IT, alongside what he discovered from the server damage logs. Scar's statement evrrn said I was only a METER IN FRONT AND IT ONLY HAPPENED ONCE.

Bellic was not part of Orange squad. You should not under any circumstance have been with her. 

 

Orange was ordered at least twice to stay together. If you were with Bellic, you were not following orders. 

 

As far as being infront of the Marauder,  the distance does not matter. You were were you should not have been. 1 foot or one meter, infantry should not be infront of a Marauder. One time or six times, you should not havr been infront of the Marauder. 

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2 minutes ago, PeaceKeeper2018 said:

I know you and Cipher are friends but YOU shouldn't be in here if you weren't there to manage the event, witness the PK in question, observed what happened or had a r ole to play.

 

I invite @Scar to add his statementv since he had firsthand witnessed this unlike you, Hazy.

I was in observer. I saw most of it. Scar replied and it was taken down, as his statement was inconsequential. 

 

Also, I am not "friends" with Cipher. 

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Just now, HazyDay said:

Bellic was not part of Orange squad. You should not under any circumstance have been with her. 

 

Orange was ordered at least twice to stay together. If you were with Bellic, you were not following orders. 

 

As far as being infront of the Marauder,  the distance does not matter. You were were you should not have been. 1 foot or one meter, infantry should not be infront of a Marauder. One time or six times, you should not havr been infront of the Marauder. 

And I wasn't it at the time of the PK, since Orange Squad HAD SPREAD OUT to cover the area.

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Just now, HazyDay said:

I was in observer. I saw most of it. Scar replied and it was taken down, as his statement was inconsequential. 

It was consequential. You're Cipher`s friend you protect whatever he does. I question your legitimacy in this matter since Scar's statement was entirely substantial. Your involvement is to serve as a meatshield for Cipher since your argument doesnt concern the moment of the PK. Three statements including Xal's observation prove you wrong despite how hard you are for Cipher.

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