PKs and If They are Being Done Right.

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

Since a bit of a hot topic has been PKs and how they are done, I thought I’d listen around to some members and see what people dislike or think on the topic.

 

The main issue I’ve seen raised is the roll system for PKs. People dislike losing their characters to a random roll number which is pretty understandable. I’m not going to sit and claim to know exactly what to do here but want to give an idea for how to get around it. (People are free to also give suggestions in the reply section but I will be deleting useless or stupid unrelated comments or memes since this is, in my opinion, an issue that is growing more and more serious as time goes on.)

 

In regards to roll injuries, instead of doing a “Roll less than __ to die” have it instead that “roll less than a ___ and you have X minutes to live” but these minutes are not OOC minutes. Keep in mind medics can be slow typers or lengthy posts will have to be made to deal with your injuries. I don’t think anyone wants a ‘/me fixes’ in response to an injury. Medics need time to RP fixing up the injuries. Giving someone 5 minutes to fix it up will result in sloppy and shit tier RP quality. Give medics X amount of minutes to get to the wounded and start fixing them up.

 

However, since the person rolled below a 5 make it a severe life threatening injury. Leave the lives of the MI in the hands of the medics. If someone’s character dies then it is because a Medic fucked up. This also fixes the issue of people wanting more CMs and such. There ya go, CM for causing a trooper to die because you’re a shit tier medic. 

 

I see people saying this is a ROLEplay server not a ROLLplay server. Let people die because of Roleplay not rolls. Give medics a chance to do more than just “stuffs gauze in bullet wound” and gives players a sense of dread that “oh shit I could survive here unless this medic fucks it up oh God.” much like how it would probably be if you were actually shot in a real war situation. Leave it up to medical RP instead of rolling to save a life.

 

 

TL;DR: Instead of rolling low and being PK’d. Roll low and give medics X amount of time to get to the injured player and start fixing them up. Don’t make it 5 OOC minutes or something like that because it encourages people to do rushed and sloppy RP. Avoid killing people based on a roll and instead leave the lives of the players in the hands of medical so that they die because of IC mistakes instead of an OOC “random” roll.

 

EXAMPLE: Rolls must be higher than a 20 to stay out of the 'PK Hotzone.' Player rolls a 25, the injury is bad but they would have plenty of time for a MEDEVAC to be called in to save them. Player rolls a 19. They can not simply wait for a MEDEVAC. They MUST be stabalized and treated while a dropship comes to save them. Make it an uphill battle. Make it hard but keep it real. Have medics really stress and work to save this players life. 

[Archer]

4 hours ago, OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz said:

If someone’s character dies then it is because a Medic fucked up. This also fixes the issue of people wanting more CMs and such. There ya go, CM for causing a trooper to die because you’re a shit tier medic. 

then you'll have medics bitching all around because they get witchhunted and CM'd for every dead guy because people dont know that dying during treatment because wounds killed you exist - even minor ones can kill if left unchecked for a long time. the medic could've been cut off from the wounded all that time. besides, mortal wounds exist too but in this case everyone and their mother will jump on the A6 train instead of trying to cling to hope that they might make it.

 

how are you going to determine if a medic fucked up? if he's taught by medical leads that, say, 'bandages stop bleeding irl so you must /me bandages wound in detail', they'll do exactly that. where'll you have them make a mistake if one's gotta happen? dirty bandages because just 'cause? jungle worms crawling up the ass and into the wound? 

8 minutes ago, Maple Leaf Moosefucker said:

”I’m not taking point, I don’t want to die.”

drop commander yells, "you are taking point and also getting a CM for insub"

 

dying when you die mechanically will just mean people will be playing it with caution like in css or csgo, not the roleplaying way. strafing etc is inescapable but that'll crank it up more. 

also bug missions will be hated universally. 

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

then you'll have medics bitching all around because they get witchhunted and CM'd for every dead guy because people dont know that dying during treatment because wounds killed you exist - even minor ones can kill if left unchecked for a long time. the medic could've been cut off from the wounded all that time. besides, mortal wounds exist too but in this case everyone and their mother will jump on the A6 train instead of trying to cling to hope that they might make it.

Well I assume people aren't gonna CM someone for something they can't help and an Officer won't take the time to issue a CM unless say, a Medic fucks up really bad and directly causes the death of a trooper, not failing to save them, but causing the death. IE OD'ing a stabilized trooper with too much Morphine or something like that. CMing isn't the main focus here, it's more on putting more focus on deaths happening because of IC reasons and trying to avoid rolls causing deaths as much as possible 

[Archer]

i need to go so ill give some more shit later i guess

 

so i dont forget: gotta take a page out of tnb

they pk people pretty much the same as we do, if they do heroics etc but players mostly self-pk. i guess out of conscience

[Archer]

10 minutes ago, OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz said:

Well I assume people aren't gonna CM someone for something they can't help and an Officer won't take the time to issue a CM unless say, a Medic fucks up really bad and directly causes the death of a trooper, not failing to save them, but causing the death. IE OD'ing a stabilized trooper with too much Morphine or something like that. CMing isn't the main focus here, it's more on putting more focus on deaths happening because of IC reasons and trying to avoid rolls causing deaths as much as possible 

yeh but fucking how are we gonna enforce that

people will always play to win and punishing someone who OD'd another guy just to show medics arent perfect machines will be not so fair, and so will not punishing him

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

yeh but fucking how are we gonna enforce that

people will always play to win and punishing someone who OD'd another guy just to show medics arent perfect machines will be not so fair, and so will not punishing him

avoid CM'ing Medics for messing up then, just have Medic leads deal with it, so this would be an issue that @Lizgflynn can look into and handle

[Archer]

its the same as cming them

still unfair

 

 

 

 

 

tonic's a bad man

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

its the same as cming them

still unfair

 

 

ok i need to go, stop replying to this niggers!!!!!!!!!!!!

last thing, I'm not saying medic leads punish them, I'm saying Tech Sergeants, Med LT or whoever is above the medic who messed up takes the time to train them and help them improve as medics and what not, don't punish people for not knowing, only punish them for knowing and doing it wrong 

[Lizgflynn]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Well I assume people aren't gonna CM someone for something they can't help and an Officer won't take the time to issue a CM unless say, a Medic fucks up really bad and directly causes the death of a trooper, not failing to save them, but causing the death. IE OD'ing a stabilized trooper with too much Morphine or something like that. CMing isn't the main focus here, it's more on putting more focus on deaths happening because of IC reasons and trying to avoid rolls causing deaths as much as possible 

A thing with that is it would require medics to be very clear on everything, and I get some medics do type large paragraphs with every little detail. but others don't and you kinda force them to do that here. Another issue with that is that admins would need to watch the medrp for failure, and waste time with the medrp instead of spawning or continuing the story. 

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

1 minute ago, Lizgflynn said:

A thing with that is it would require medics to be very clear on everything, and I get some medics do type large paragraphs with every little detail. but others don't and you kinda force them to do that here. Another issue with that is that admins would need to watch the medrp for failure, and waste time with the medrp instead of spawning or continuing the story. 

Well, I'd assume Medics would be able to shoot a quick /report giving a tl;dr of what they did. Like, "Yeah I patched up the gun shot, stopped the bleeding ad stabilized him" so that Event runner is aware and doesn't have to worry about it. I'm also not suggesting we make anyone type a certain length of posts, just that we don't rush anyone to type posts or condense anything. If a player wants to do a short and simple /me that's fine but if people want to do big ass detailed posts they should be able to do that too. 

 

At the end of the day I'm not saying we completely rework and change everything, Simply that rolls should be done to determine how badly someone is hurt and leave the Medics to save their lives instead of PKing a character based solely on a single roll and /e. 

[Lizgflynn]

6 minutes ago, OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz said:

Well, I'd assume Medics would be able to shoot a quick /report giving a tl;dr of what they did. Like, "Yeah I patched up the gun shot, stopped the bleeding ad stabilized him" so that Event runner is aware and doesn't have to worry about it. I'm also not suggesting we make anyone type a certain length of posts, just that we don't rush anyone to type posts or condense anything. If a player wants to do a short and simple /me that's fine but if people want to do big ass detailed posts they should be able to do that too. 

Then they could just report no failures, no one would ever fail. They could just do a brief /me that doesn't go into any specifics and be perfectly fine.

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

2 minutes ago, Lizgflynn said:

Then they could just report no failures, no one would ever fail. They could just do a brief /me that doesn't go into any specifics and be perfectly fine.

admins can check logs or keep an eye on the RP to be sure

[Lizgflynn]

35 minutes ago, OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz said:

admins can check logs or keep an eye on the RP to be sure

This would force them to watch the rp being done instead of focusing on the overall event.

[Scar]

29 minutes ago, Lizgflynn said:

This would force them to watch the rp being done instead of focusing on the overall event.

and that is why admins should be encourage or really made to work in teams when doing events so they don't get overwhelm and can deal with everything that goes on with the correct attention in the event

[CamGrrr]

It feels more realistic that people drop like stones sometimes, I shouldn't have to cater to someone who died to a machine gun because they rolled a 1 and is upset because their slightly melodramatic character died after two months. 

 

For a rather serious wound, we already force a time limit; for example: Xalpox used /ev "X and Y will probably bleed out soon of not treated soon." This gives medics a clear priority list, I never feel 'rushed' by a admin as a medic; rather by IC circumstances such as bugs or seps closing in on your position. Basically, you never have all the time you need in combat, force choice, not cuddle to their needs.

[Guest]

I rather like the roll system. It takes the "targeting" out of the admin's hands. 

 

I for one have been accused of targeting players. I have never actually targeted a player, but as an admin that is... controversial to say the least, I dont like doing PKs unless the party in question has rolled. That way, I'm not PKing someone because of some perceived notion that I don't like them. 

 

But... then again. I am one of the few players with more than three characters on the wall of rememberance. So, I really don't mind if my characters die. 

 

I think everyone should be prepared for that moment when their character dies. Because not everyone is @Hicks and can have characters that are more than 10 OOC years old. 

 

 

Also, while I'm at it. The roll system is easily enforcable and doesn't allow for much wiggle room. I like that. You roll, you die. You can appeal, but depending on the situation, it's not likely to get reversed. One of my biggest gripes is when PKs are reversed. There is RP that goes into a character after they die. Bringing them back is just stupid in my eyes, it ruins immersion and character development for everyone. Not just the player that was PK'd. 

[Archer]

you mean dimov

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

you mean dimov

 

Dimov too. But they are few and far between. 

 

[Archer]

so was hicks until

 

i'll leave before tonic censors the fuck out of me again

i'll also write what i wanted to a bit later

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

I'm not saying we MUST change the way things are done, simply voicing the concerns that I'm seeing commonly pop up the last few days and giving a simple lil' solution or possibility for admins to try out. Personally, I'm going to be trying out my idea for the drops I do in the future and get some feedback from players to see what they think. 

 

_{not telling anyone how to run their drops, just offering alternatives <3}

[Xalphox]

I've moved this from the staff forums to the public forums - may as well make the reasoning clear.

 

For me (because it's up to individual admins to set their own thresholds based on the circumstances), anyone who rolls below a 15 receives a life threatening injury - where, left untreated, or treated poorly, they will be PKed within a certain timeframe. This has happened a couple of times this week - particularly Davidson's drop where his particular style of leadership was to blitzkrieg and to leave wounded behind vs. other leaders who focus on getting their men out alive (two of "my" PKs this week were the results of A6s). 

 

 The key benefits of the roll system overall for me:

 

• It's consistent and objective. There is little opportunity for an admin to target a player. And the end result is that PKs whilst remaining upsetting are no longer adversarial - the player isn't left feeling that they have been wronged. But it also swings the other way: @Appetite Ruining Kebab mentioned during his appeal that another player had been let off a situation (like jumping on a grenade) that clearly ought to have been a PK - but was let off instead. This system means everybody has a fair chance of survival, our players don't feel like they've been specifically wronged when they are PKed, and I'm not left trying to prove a negative (he's biased against me!) after every PK.
   
• It's balanced both ways. The probability of being PKed is 1/20 - meaning every time you die, you have a 95% chance of survival. And let's face it - to actually die in combat on SSTRP, particularly more than once, you are usually being reckless and you deserve to die. Retreat is an option. Not taking point is an option. The actual risk of being PKed is negligible but it's enough to make you think twice.  If you are reasonably careful, you will find it very hard to die.
  
  @Gr4Ss kindly put together this probability distribution for me:
  
  
   
• It adds risk and consequence to Starship Troopers - and it makes the server feel realistically gory. The MI feels like a proper military: death is around the corner, and if you are reckless, you are likely to die. It's hard to develop a character as a grizzled, death defying veteran who has seen all their buddies die around them unless they actually are a grizzled, death defying veteran who has seen their buddies die around them. The character development I've seen players have just this week alone has been exceptional - and I've been told by a number of people that this week has been the most intense (and most fun) week of SSTRP they've played.
   
• Rank fluidity. My favourite term. When NCOs and even COs (because not even Davidson is off limits to this system) die, it's an opportunity for huge character development for the entire server. But it also means new people have to go up to fill the shoes of their former leaders.

 

[cat danny 25]

2 hours ago, OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz said:

admins can check logs or keep an eye on the RP to be sure

None of the admins give enough of a fuck about their job to do that.

[Yuki || 日本語の悩み]

True, wounding people for stupid is quite easy for player made events. And my reasons still stand in NAZZS reply, cant really edit huge paragraphs in German class.

[Archer]

Just now, cat danny 25 said:

None of the admins give enough of a fuck about their job to do that.

ex fucking cuse me

[OpTiCFaZeSoCkzZz]

1 minute ago, cat danny 25 said:

None of the admins give enough of a fuck about their job to do that.

1. Not really true.

2. If an admin wants to give an injury but not take the time to monitor said injury and be sure that the very thing they put in their drop is done then that's their fault and they have no right to complain