PKs and If They are Being Done Right.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Lalatina said:

I love having harder missions and the such, I've pk'd tons of my of my own chars on my own will. I think the system is simple, but, the reason the system we have no is WONKY is due to how injuries are played. Adminge #1 does /event Pvt. Jenny Raco gets shot in the leg., Adminge #1 will then fly over and say "Roll" and you roll a 4. Wel, low and behold that's one below the PK margin, so that bullet that passed through the leg with the medic attending to it immedielty kills you because hurr duur.

 

 I think PK thresholds make no sense, the lower the roll the worse the injury. We all know simple veins and arterys in the arms, legs, chest, and so on. So maybe instead of saying,"Roll", then u roll and get a 4 and badda bing die. You roll a 4 and something major is hit and the medic is then told,"This is hit.", and you are given maybe a .. 20 minute timer to fix it, and so on. 

 

 

That is not how the system works. 

 

If you die, you are requested to roll. THEN the /event is done. If the admin fucks up the /event, or something has happened RPwise prior to the /event, it must be taken into account, however injuries/deaths are given AFTER the roll. 

[Kraegus]

2 minutes ago, Lalatina said:

 

 I think PK thresholds make no sense, the lower the roll the worse the injury. We all know simple veins and arterys in the arms, legs, chest, and so on. So maybe instead of saying,"Roll", then u roll and get a 4 and badda bing die. You roll a 4 and something major is hit and the medic is then told,"This is hit.", and you are given maybe a .. 20 minute timer to fix it, and so on. 

If the wound is pretty non lethal, the threshold will be lower. You get shot in the shoulder, the PK threshold will be like 20 and death would be like 1. 

Personally I think of 1-5s on the roll as crit fails from DnD, somehow luck has fucked you

[Guest]

Just now, Fitz said:

Not saying my character shouldn't have been PK'd but it wasn't the case for Fitz when they rolled low after it was already decided where she was hit and she didn't even die in OOC, but the threshold still applied. 

Like I said "something has happened RPwise prior to the /event, it must be taken in to account" Your case was one of those cases. Sometimes RP causes people to have to roll. Sometimes it doesn't. 

[Kraegus]

Probably not, but hey, shit happens. Life is full of weird things.

I should probably be dead irl, but here I am

[Yuki || 日本語の悩み]

7 minutes ago, HazyDay said:

 

 

That is not how the system works. 

 

If you die, you are requested to roll. THEN the /event is done. If the admin fucks up the /event, or something has happened RPwise prior to the /event, it must be taken into account, however injuries/deaths are given AFTER the roll. 

That's what I mean. Pvt. Jenny Raco dies to combine_npc_mdl and are requested to roll, they roll, and get a 4 and that's below a set PK threshold. They then go AGH, while a medic is treating them.

 

The way I DO it, sometimes, is if someone dies I ask them to roll, and if they roll a 80+, graze, it then lowers to 50 - 79, which is a minor wound to arms or legs, 30 - 49, a medium wound, then a heavy wound 20 - 30, then 1 - 19 for a grave wound.

Each of these sets have a timer too, depending on mission. And I have all these numbers and stuff in a google doc and on paper, so it's easy to keep track.

 

I think this way is much easier, as -

 

A), Provides medics a chance to roleplay.

 

B), Adds roleplay.

 

And C), makes you feel danger, without dying all of a sudden because u rolled 5 below.

[Kraegus]

@Fitz

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/health/hip-surgery-shooting-scalise/index.html

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Fitz said:

But I doubt being shot in the hip instantly kills you. 

 

Look at all of those arteries. Being shot in the hip, six times with 7.62 rounds at poing blank range, as you were,  is going to quite literally, obliterate the hip, tear the arteries open and you will bleed out. 

[Kraegus]

If it is severe enough, maybe. I ain't no fuckin doctah. 

[F r a n c o]

instant death maybe not but i doubt u would be awake enough to do anything

[Yuki || 日本語の悩み]

Player deaths should NOT be quick, it's a person character they spent time on to develop. No one should die in just 5 minutes without some sort of major thing, weatrher they can RP it or not, add emotion to the scene .. Unless you know, they want a quick death.. And we're not talking about Pvt. Jeen A. Dumbfuck.

[Kraegus]

Gotta remember that not all of us here have medical experience. This isnt supposed to be EXTREME ULTRA REALISTIC MILSIM EXTRAORDINAIRE! 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Lalatina said:

That's what I mean. Pvt. Jenny Raco dies to combine_npc_mdl and are requested to roll, they roll, and get a 4 and that's below a set PK threshold. They then go AGH, while a medic is treating them.

 

The way I DO it, sometimes, is if someone dies I ask them to roll, and if they roll a 80+, graze, it then lowers to 50 - 79, which is a minor wound to arms or legs, 30 - 49, a medium wound, then a heavy wound 20 - 30, then 1 - 19 for a grave wound.

Each of these sets have a timer too, depending on mission. And I have all these numbers and stuff in a google doc and on paper, so it's easy to keep track.

 

I think this way is much easier, as -

 

A), Provides medics a chance to roleplay.

 

B), Adds roleplay.

 

And C), makes you feel danger, without dying all of a sudden because u rolled 5 below.

But there is no danger to that. 

 

I feel no danger when I know it's unlikely my character will die because I rolled a 4 and I'm injured bad, but medics can save me within 10 minutes. There is quite literally no danger in that. No one dies. They just get injured, rinse and repeat. 

 

But this is also coming from you, who were involved in a scandal for injuring someone. So I take the things you say with a grain of sand. 

[Yuki || 日本語の悩み]

2 minutes ago, HazyDay said:

But there is no danger to that. 

 

I feel no danger when I know it's unlikely my character will die because I rolled a 4 and I'm injured bad, but medics can save me within 10 minutes. There is quite literally no danger in that. No one dies. They just get injured, rinse and repeat. 

 

But this is also coming from you, who were involved in a scandal for injuring someone. So I take the things you say with a grain of sand. 

Uhh, why even bring that up here? I think this way works perfectly for a PLAYER RAN EVENT. As I cannot just go off and PK someone will-nilly like Xal, or take limbs. And one would think I have learned from that -incident-, no reason to even bring it up. Over and done with.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Lalatina said:

Uhh, why even bring that up here? I think this way works perfectly for a PLAYER RAN EVENT. As I cannot just go off and PK someone will-nilly like Xal, or take limbs. And one would think I have learned from that -incident-, no reason to even bring it up.

Because the only reason you can't PK anyone is because of that incident. So perhaps, if you were able to, you might look at things differently. 

 

Yes, people put months and years into characters, but no character is permanent. Life is not a given, and the SST universe is a very violent place. Up until the past few months it didn't feel like that. Now, it feels violent, like it should be. 

 

SST without death is boring. The /roll system was put into place to take the 'targeting' out of the admin's hands. It puts it on a random number, which I am perfectly okay with. Less appeals to PKs, because players know they've rolled poorly and it's on them. It's no longer up to the complete and total judgement of an admin. 

 

 

[Kraegus]

The PK to injury ratio is actually really fucking low. Lets take Kraut for example, before I pulled him back onto the server he had 40+ different injuries, not to forget a near full third degree face burn, taking a big chunk of APC shrapnel to the god damn legs (and not losing them), bullets to all four limbs from a turret (His first drop), AA round to the chest, and many many GSWs that he gained over his time in the MI. He should have died his first drop. He felt untouchable, and as much as I loved him, I am glad he finally died, though I wish the circumstances were a bit different in how.

SST had been lacking in deaths, and meaningful (if any of you actually found his death meaningful) ones even more.

Our characters, in the SST universe, should be dead 10x over (old quote from Xal (I think)). 

[Kraegus]

No system put in place for PKs is going to make everyone happy.

[Yuki || 日本語の悩み]

Just now, HazyDay said:

Because the only reason you can't PK anyone is because of that incident. So perhaps, if you were able to, you might look at things differently. 

 

Yes, people put months and years into characters, but no character is permanent. Life is not a given, and the SST universe is a very violent place. Up until the past few months it didn't feel like that. Now, it feels violent, like it should be. 

 

SST without death is boring. The /roll system was put into place to take the 'targeting' out of the admin's hands. It puts it on a random number, which I am perfectly okay with. Less appeals to PKs, because players know they've rolled poorly and it's on them. It's no longer up to the complete and total judgement of an admin. 

 

 

The reason I can't PK people is due to the fact that a player-ran event isn't allowed to PK someone, let alone would I want too now considering the ammount of back-lash people get for it. I was even told I wasen't allowed to pk someone when I ran my first ever event, back in March of last year. 

 

-- Also, the /roll/ system dosen't take targetting away fully. As an admin can easily do model_07_Rebel, spawn with M9K Db, kill you, make u /roll, then PK you cause the roll system gave you the short end of the stick. Even though you did everything correctly.

 

 

[Kraegus]

Just now, Lalatina said:

The reason I can't PK people is due to the fact that a player-ran event isn't allowed to PK someone

Really? That sucks.

[Yuki || 日本語の悩み]

1 minute ago, Kraegus said:

Really? That sucks.

What I was told by my event-sponser.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Lalatina said:

The reason I can't PK people is due to the fact that a player-ran event isn't allowed to PK someone, let alone would I want too now considering the ammount of back-lash people get for it. I was even told I wasen't allowed to pk someone when I ran my first ever event, back in March of last year. 

 

-- Also, the /roll/ system dosen't take targetting away fully. As an admin can easily do model_07_Rebel, spawn with M9K Db, kill you, make u /roll, then PK you cause the roll system gave you the short end of the stick. Even though you did everything correctly.

 

 

I'm not sure which admins you're talking about, but none that I know have enough time/energy to do that shit. That is quite literally too much work to kill someone. 

Most of the players that have died recently have died because they were doing something stupid, or by complete freak accident, like Vermillion and the flame thrower last night. 
 

[Kraegus]

I feel like the threat of Xal coming down on someone is enough to keep many people away from targeting. That or ya know, the idea of not being a scumbag.

If an admin is NPC dropping, do the right thing and call them out. Im sure logs gathered or eye-witness accounts will revert the PK.

[Yuki || 日本語の悩み]

Just now, HazyDay said:

I'm not sure which admins you're talking about, but none that I know have enough time/energy to do that shit. That is quite literally too much work to kill someone. 

That's a bet, I've seen this tons of times. And I'm sure other players can vouch here.

 

Admins spawn in, using snipers, snipe you and make u roll or just injure you. You can TRY and supress them, but don't worry, supression here just makes them leave for a minute or two. Sure, you can kill them. But thank god the enemy has a whole battalion of marksmen to use at their disposal.

 

I can't count the times I've been Double barreld because I walked on the right side of the hall and been wounded for it.

 

-- And like Fitz,"

1 minute ago, Fitz said:

It's very easy to drop a few NPC's on someone.

This has happend at times too, especailly a couple of events where certain admins spawn high health bugs with high damage, just to wound some MI. Or stop them from even going down a snowy street or dark tunnel. Targetting will never go away, sure, you can negate the chances. But it will never fully go away.

[F r a n c o]

44 minutes ago, Fitz said:

Your levels consciousness during such things vary highly, and I'd say that should be left to the player.

i disagree with you there

[Noviix]

Rolling is fine when it's used properly.

 

If you want to play a marksman as an admin and shoot someone in a group that bad, make them all roll and whoever gets the lowest under a threshold will get shot, not instantly die. Meaning if the threshold is 30 and everyone rolls something above 30, even if the lowest is 31, no one gets shot ; But if two people roll under 30, say 29, 20, the person who rolled a 20 gets shot but not instantly killed. Don't do some shit where you just pick someone and /event it.

 

If you are playing an event character you should not be able to no clip, look at two players who are trained on you, un-noclip, unlock a door with no RP, kill them both, and ask for rolls for wounds. That's when this roll system is stupid and people have a reason to complain.

 

If you use it as intended there is no need for this forum discussion to even take place.

 

When someone runs off by themselves, or is rambo'ing, just something really stupid, I say insta PK them because that's how it should be, discourage that behavior.

 

If someone is doing something rambo'ish within reason, perhaps a heroic moment where they should expect a possible PK, apply the roll system as we have it now.

 

If someone is meticulously acting everything out that they need to, taking precautions and the like, they shouldn't get fucked and if they are really in a position where they are going to, they shouldn't get fucked that bad.

 

TL;DR - Just apply the roll system fairly, there shouldn't be a standardized system that is applied to every situation because every situation is different. It also never hurts to ask the player if they are alright being wounded, critically wounded, or PK'd if the situation calls for it. These are simple things that can be taken into account and please a majority. I don't see the system of PK's changing drastically by any means, it doesn't need to to be fair, it just needs to be slightly altered to be more situational and that's how RP always should be, situation by situation.

[Archer]

10 hours ago, Fitz said:

But I doubt being shot in the hip instantly kills you. 

to my knowledge, you'll bleed out in around 30-60 seconds or so if the femoral artery is severed. which is at the hip.

 

 

@Lalatina @HazyDay simmer the fuck down. drama's entertaining for me but I think throwing shit went a little too far. 

 

this is the response to a few things mentioned in this thread that i want to reply to.

 

-you're not granted the ability to PK people if you're a player and you're running an event. 

 

-'reckless NCOs not getting it' isn't staff's problem, it's the problem of your SNCOs. if it's a legit issue, bring it up with MI leads. it's also an entire different story I won't divulge into in this thread.

 

-being set on fire by a flamethrower is grounds for an instant PK, in my opinion. if that ever happens on my event, you'll be either dead or dying. i don't see how rolling a 98 should save you from the sticky burning liquid covering your body everywhere - that's if it's a human flamethrower. if a bug sets you on fire, you instantly melt. no dodging this, period.

 

-people complain about big bad snipers fucking you up and ignoring being suppressed - and I can tell you that you yourself, the MI - including admins that are playing the event - give no shits about being shot at yourself. there were times i've purposefully placed myself half a map away, and was still shot at by literally everyone, because skylining exists and people don't go prone or hide, they fire at the shooter because they saw the bullets flying. that's source for you, i guess. the same goes out for when a tanker appears and people try to kill it from under its legs with rockets, not run away because they know the tanker NPC is broken and that admins will be lenient on them in this regard. make of that what you will. 

 

-rolls. i can see some admins will try using what kebab suggested, and i'll probably give it a try myself if i have time for event running, but the blessing and the bane of our team is that event runner makes up their own rules. there's no standard, you tailor the event how you want. one admin can tear off a limb if 3 warrior npcs kill a guy, another might make you roll, the third will ignore it completely. it depends on the staffer and the situation. i wouldn't expect this roll system to become a standard, or for all the admins to play by it, simply because it overcomplicates shit. you didn't explain how it's supposed to be nullified, if at all, which means that if you get shit, you'll be forever stuck with a -20 injury roll on this character. 

the best i can see it be used is within the course of a single event. you die once, get -20, roll. die again, -40, roll, etc. pretty much the same but in the course of a single event.